d20 Supers: Recommendations?

[WizarDru]

This is all very helpful. Please the comments coming.

My main desire is to be able to spend the minimum effort to get a game going. I want to avoid the number-crunching of Champions, even though some of my players wouldn't mind...I would. I'm partial to d20 for the same reason that I was to GURPS. Less to learn, less to relearn, quicker to apply and quicker to adapt to existing material.

Some would argue that GURPS really only has two stats, btw.

I checked your review, Alan, and it certainly did give some good impressions for M&M. My impression is that FC2F would require more work on my part to get running, and quite honestly, that's exactly the opposite of what I want to do. I don't want to have to spend a large amount of time with system prep, what with my increasingly limited time to prepare and run a game. Is this an incorrect impression? I'm not terribly swayed by a relation to d20 Modern either way. None of my players have it, and I'm really not an expert on the differences between D&D and d20 modern, nor have I put any effort into it. M&M being more OGL is fine by me, as I expect some mechanics have to change: the nature of the genre requires it...or else you get a kludge like GURPS Supers, which I made work for years, but was never terribly happy with.

And I see "Deeds not Word" mentioned several times, but I've never heard of it. Is it a PDF product only? Where can I get more information on it, or a review?

 

[Aleshandre]

At risk of being lynched for plugging my own creation, I have a set designed with D20 Modern in mind called Power Overwhelming that I think is one of the best systems out there. I have always disliked the idea of using a limited number of "power points" that feed all of the characters 3 - 15 superpowers, in the name of game balance. It seems too psionic to me. Because of this, any system that uses power points turns me off.

 

[Chroma]

And I see "Deeds not Word" mentioned several times, but I've never heard of it. Is it a PDF product only? Where can I get more information on it, or a review?

The most excellent Deeds Not Words can be found here:

http://www.minasithil.com/cryptosnarkgames/

and here:

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=1685&

I heartily recommend DNW, Scott Lynch has really captured the feel of comic books both in rules and writing.

 

[NeuroZombie]

For If you want to be able to be able to easily ad d20 monsters and such, and you want general d20 compatibility, I would go for Deeds Not Words all the way. If you want a simple, yet very satisfying version of d20, then go for Mutants and Masterminds. Both phenomenal games (tied for best supers for d20 period IMHO), but with different strehgths.

I did not like godlike or SAS at all, and FCtF is great as an add-on system to regular 3.5 or D20 M, but not as a stand alone product.

 

[The Cyber Samurai]

The most excellent Deeds Not Words can be found here:

http://www.minasithil.com/cryptosnarkgames/

and here:

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=1685&

I heartily recommend DNW, Scott Lynch has really captured the feel of comic books both in rules and writing.

I'd recommend ordering the pdf from RPG.now. Scott has been moving and involved in real world affairs for awhile, and the CD's from his website sale are taking along time to get in the mail. He also hosts a yahoo forum that is defintely worth checking out with a lot of rules clarifications and marvel to DNW conversions. By the way, you also get lifetime product updates if you order the pdf.

Additionally, the Four Color to Fantasy rules aren't hard to grasp. All you need to do is take the "Hero" class, and you have access to points to buy powers. It is really easy.

Steve

 

[RangerWickett]

I'm one of the chief writers of Four-Color to Fantasy, and judging from what you say you want in your game:

I want a system that will allow my players to make honest-to-goodness superheroes who can tear up a city block in heated battle with Nazi Robots!

and

I'm not terribly swayed by a relation to d20 Modern either way.

I would personally suggest Mutants & Masterminds if you don't mind the cost (I think it's $30+, but very pretty for the money). If you don't mind grabbing a new system and teaching it, then M&M is just a wee bit smoother than FCTF. We both run our power system pretty much the same way, and power levels work about the same too, but M&M is a lot easier for high-powered characters, since they rewrote the basics of the d20 rules.

With FCTF, it's great for, say, the X-Men of the 80s and 90s, or DareDevil, or Batman the Animated Series. The world is a bit more grounded in reality, your characters get beaten up in the course of a fight but eventually recover, and you don't mind rolling damage dice, because you're hitting people.

M&M can handle that too, but it tends to scale more toward Superman, Justice League, and Spider-man. People punch down buildings, or get thrown through things, and injuries never seem to be more than bruises until someone goes down. M&M has a bit simpler rules for when you're dealing immense punishment to creatures and objects, rolling probably just one d20 instead of lots of d6s with modifiers.

M&M has The Pugilist, a dude with a Kato mask who boxes with fisticuffs, and a weird atomic guy whose name I forget. FCTF has Zidi Wheatling - THE HALFLING TITAN - a cute little girl with 6-ft. swords, and The Shade, a dude with a Kato mask who can walk through walls, and wears a fedora.

I haven't looked at DNW for a while, and never to SAS, but as a reward for spurring this discussion, I ask that you send me an email at RangerWickett@ hotmail.com , and I'll send you a copy of FCTF - Modern. If you like it and decide to use it, support us by having your players buy copies, or just buy a Print on Demand copy yourself.

 

[Emiricol]

I'm going to chime in and say that Mutants & Masterminds is probably one of the best uses of the OGL for any game, superhero or otherwise. It plays smoothly, has an active forum, models anything I can think of, accomodates a range of playstyles from normal human to superman. There's easily over a hundred villains around on the web so you don't have to number crunch much.

The only thing it does *not* do well is allow you to use Monster Manual creatures, as the mechanics are just different enough that you'd have to redo the monster.

There's a Mutants & Masterminds group board for play-by-post play as well (linked off my site, which is linked in my sig). Whether you buy it or not, check out the official forums of MnM (The Atomic Thinktank, also linked off my site).

 

[ledded]

<snip>Vigilance I didn't like (though I have the new version, I haven't read/reviewed it yet) and it highlights some of the cheif problems of trying to use d20 for supers. That said, it has one of THE best systems for disadvantages in any d20 System games. <snip>

Our group played Blood and Vigilance (which I'm assuming is the 'new version' you are talking about) and we absolutely fell in love with it. It is so easy to get accustomed to and extends d20 Modern so naturally we just loved it.

I've heard good things about most of the others mentioned here, but if you are looking for superheroic action with a great price tag and you want to base it off of d20 modern (whether you just like d20 modern, dont want to learn a whole new system, etc) then Blood and Vigilance IMO is the way to go. We had a blast with it.

 

[Dragonblade]

M&M is a slick game. I have played it several times. But I'm going back to HERO. M&M just doesn't have some of the complexity that I want in a game.

HERO has a little too much, but I'm working on a d20/HERO hybrid system that should provide the perfect balance for me.

 

[Karl Green]

For me, I love Mutants & Masterminds... it is simply the best OGL out there ...and to me the best supers system that I have.

I have DNW (updated version), SAS (tri-stat), HERO (every version including 5th), Aberrant, V&V, Godlike, and a couple others I can't think of right now... of course only M&M and DNW are d20 version. I am interested in the FCtF for some fantasy with a bit of weirdness but for straight super-hero I would not use anything but M&M. On Green Ronin's board you can download a 4 page 'quick-play' rules that will give you some basics on it.