D20 taking over?

[Holy Bovine]

I think that we will see many gaming systems converted to d20 (actually we already have seen gaming systems converted to d20 - Traveller due out this summer and Call of Cthulhu are the two 'biggies' that come to mind). Is this a bad thing? Not really. Does it mean that d20 will become the only game system in exsistance? I seriously doubt it. Simply because there will always be a market for non-WotC products (and there is a portion of the RPG market that sees anything d20 as being wholly from WotC and any company that publishes under the d20 banner as being a 'sellout' to whom it remains to be discovered).

I have never believed that a game system can define a RPG genre. Deadlands is more than playing cards, Traveller was more than hexidecimel notation and Shadowrun is more than fistfuls of d6's. The system means little (to me) it is the background and reasoning behind the game that matters.

 

[Henry]

I love seeing new games and new rules systems, if they do a good job of evoking the setting or genre. I'd rather have Pelgrane's Dying Earth RPG than I would d20 Dying Earth, because the default assumptions and mechanics of D&D would actively get in the way of the feel of Vance's work.

When I read this line, I really blanked out for a second...

Jack VANCE? Dying Earth? The place from whence was derived the D&D spell system and Ioun Stones???

Perhaps I'd better pick his works up again...

 

[Holy Bovine]

Interesting... I wasn't expecting so many people to be for the D20 system becoming the dominant system in roleplaying (although the poll shows that a lot of people do think it's spreading too much).

Does your poll really show this? I thought it was more an opinion on what you (the voter) think was happening in the market currently - not whether one approves or not. I'm not bashing you mind but I think you may have intended something different that what I felt the poll was about.

 

[Eryx]

Your right, it's just my bad word use in that post.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I sure hope not, but it looks that way to me. I'm so glad the the original COC is still published even with the d20 version. The d20 system is cool, but I don't think it's for every setting. I don't see how it would handle superheros very well, but I don't know. I like varitey in my games as evidenced by my post on other systems that are still going strong. The next game I run when we take a break from 3e WILL NOT be a d20 system.

 

[Henry]

To me, the RPG hobby is about sharing an imagined fantasy, and spending time with friends. To this end, the game system needs to both facilitate this and be as transparent as possible. The one problem with most game systems available is the lack of capacity for evolution. A writer may come along, and fix the most glaring errors of a system, but in the end, it has not been completely matched to the experience it provides, despite what its supporters say (because it is, after all, a human endeavor) and therefore, does not get better by leaps and bounds. It took THREE WHOLE EDITIONS for Shadowrun to attain status as playable game, in my opinion, and even now, rarely will a GM run it in our area with more than four or five players present, due to the time constraints of the resolution of actions. d20 still suffers from not being able to make results both plausible and short. White wolf suffers from major problems at certain combinations of powers and skills, and can sometimes be too open-ended for the resolution of some actions. A game always has problems representing the setting completely transparently.

So along comes the idea of an evolutionary-capable game. Millions of pairs of hands work on the game system, finding what works, what doesn't, they keep and publicize what works, and they kill off the rest in a darwinian fashion due to lack of interest.

Eventually, you have a game system whose parts do not resemble what they were years ago at its founding. Sets of interchangeable rules develop, around one central core resolution mechanic that does not change. A truly facilitated and transparent game begins to form.

This is the promise of d20, and why it is quickly catching on. The select few gamers (such as myself) who frequent these boards who can easily learn new systems, because it is their hobby to do so, are NOT the majority. As Vaxalon says, if the hobby is to grow, you must have a standard for beginners to latch on to. Model car enthusiasts do not start with the baddest, toughest car they can find; they start with the beginner kits first. For the majority of model car hobbyists, they never leave those multiplicity of beginner sets; only the true enthusiast tackle more difficult concepts.

Think about this for a minute.

 

[Psion]

It made me think. I find that RPG's work best when the system you use fits the setting.
Examples:

1. World of Darkness (Storyteller System)
2. Call of Cthulhu (Chaosium's System)
3. Deadlands (Dice & cards)
   [/list=1]
   
   The above systems really fit their settings, where as perhaps the D20 system dosen't.
   
   Is the D20 becoming too generic and/or over-used?

1. 
   
   First off, I do agree that there are better possible systems for some things.
   
   That said, there certainly are worse possible systems for some things. That more than anything else has driven my away from the independant market. Everybody has a frikkin' new system with some oooh-ah-wow factor that seems like fun but is ultimately gimmicky and not all that useful in play. And if I ever play another system with a dice pool, it will be too soon.
   
   D20 isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread (or would that be Bread: The Sliced? ) but it is certainly a good start. It has a fairly straightforward simple dice mechanic that is easy to use on the fly and has some fairly easy to grasp probabilities. The character system is easy to grasp and doesn't require lots of finnicky cost scales and encourages logical character concepts instead of anything-goes kitbashing. Plus it is well playtested. That to me puts it ahead of about 90% of the market.
   
   I could live without Cthulhu D20; I played the BRP version and worked just fine with it. And speaking of BRP and D20, DLOM was a joke. That said, I could play CoC d20 (not so sure about DLOM, but then I consider it to be a shoddy product.)
   
   But many games that have endured a conversion have been improved by it, IMO. I think d20 is a much better system for Rokugan.
   
   So yeah, you might be able to debate this or that system might be better for a given setting. But personally, I am glad to see some bric-a-brac excised by it.
   
   You may pull out some grass when raking your lawn, but overall the lawn is healthier for it.

 

[SableWyvern]

Is d20 grabbing a big market share?

Yes.

I have no idea how much it will grab before things level off.


I do know that the thought of everything being d20 is very, very scary.

Fortunately, I doubt very much that that will occur.

While system does not equal mood, different systems do different things well. No system can ever give everyone the best of everything.

Most systems have one or two particular features that give them a distinct feel, and which their die hard fans love. To some people these things aren't important. To others, minor or major differences in mechanics can make for a whole different mood or feel, even in two games with an otherwise identical story and style.

I know that I love discovering a new game and learning how that system works. Playing with a different set of rules, for me, is almost as important and invigorating as using different character concepts.

I have no problem with someone who swears by d20, and won't play anything else. But if the rest of us are ever limited only to d20 when seeking published works, that will be a dark and depressing day.

 

[drothgery]

Interesting... I wasn't expecting so many people to be for the D20 system becoming the dominant system in roleplaying (although the poll shows that a lot of people do think it's spreading too much).

Err...
Given the demographics of the RPG market, it seems likely that the D&D system is going to be the domant system in roleplaying even if it isn't used for anything else.

I'm not sure if d20 is really 'taking over'; I am pretty sure that other systems that were very similar to d20 are likely to be replaced by d20, because there's not much value in using a system that's not quite d20.

 

[Corinth]

I would like nothing more than to see the day when there is no engine but D20.