d20 Weapons Locker vs. Ultramodern Firearms

[JPL]

Weapons Locker has a lot of problems.

1.) Typographical errors abound.
2.) wrong pictures for some weapons (there are no M16 variants that look like an AK-47, for example)
3.) It bought into Hype & Bunk.
4.) A lot of duplications of rules & stats from UMF D20.
5.) Plenty of space dedicated to the good things about individual guns, but hardly a word about the bad things.
6.) They spent months touting it as a more complete look at modern weapons with everyone expecting rocket launchers, ATGW, mortars, etc., and it turned out being nothing but guns and a few grenade launchers.

To be honest, I have the impresion that even the author of the book wasn't too happy about the way the book turned out.

1. True, and very annoying.
2. True, and also very annoying.
3. Couldn't tell you. Guns and martial arts seem to be areas where no two gamers can agree about what's fact and what's fiction.
4. One of the ideas behind the OGL is that each new author will not have to reinvent the wheel. If Charles Ryan came up with a good mechanic for tracer bullets or whatever, then I fail to see how adopting that idea in WL should be considered a problem.
5. I dunno...that Russian shotgun that does nonlethal damage to the user was nice, and there was certainly acknowledgment of the weapons that didn't catch on or had fallen into disuse.
6. WotC never said this would contain rocket launchers and such, did they? I don't think "everyone expected" that it would. I, for one, don't have much use for heavy weapons.

To be honest, I have the impression that you have some sort of personal grudge against this book and/or its author, based on the posts you've made here and on the Wizards boards.

 

[The_Universe]

To be honest, I have the impression that you have some sort of personal grudge against this book and/or its author, based on the posts you've made here and on the Wizards boards.

Dana has a competing product on the market (check the links in his sig). That may explain some of the perceived grudge.

Anyway, to elaborate on my earlier comments on the book, despite some silly typos and what I tend to think is a lot of poorly organized junk stats (why not have all the guns in a PHB style chart, with damage, range, etc. all laid out?) it's not a total waste of money, assuming that you have NO desire to stat out guns yourself. There was a great article at WotC just a few days ago about how to stat out guns, and I'd guess that they used the system they posted (for free) on the website to stat out all the guns in the book.

 

[JPL]

Dana has a competing product on the market (check the links in his sig). That may explain some of the perceived grudge.

I understand that Dana has his own series of gun books. But when he's over on the Wizards boards dropping comments like...

"FirePhoenix, my personal suggestion is to buy a different resource. I just got my copy today (along with OGL Cybernet) and I'm as disappointed as everyone else. No wonder the author shopped around the manuscript for years before WotC decided to pick it up..."

"Remember, he shopped that manuscript around for years before WotC gave him enough money to make him willing to relinquish his control. Maybe you should also be disgusted with your friend for selling out."

...that's starting to sound more like a personal vendetta.


http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=181785&perpage=30&pagenumber=2

 

[Cergorach]

JPL, Dana is a bit [understatement]'opinionated'[/understatement], particulary when it comes to the subject of guns, especially when it comes to guns and products he didn't write. Just ignore that part his posts, we all do, and you should be fine... ;-)

 

[ledded]

Well, while Dana does get a big acerbic at times, I've found that it's more his extreme passion for the subject matter and overwhelming desire for factual accuracy and editorial correctness that drives some of these comments than any actual grudge or bad feeling in general.

So you can take these with a grain of salt or not, as you like, but he is an extremely well-researched, impeccably referenced, and dependable subject matter expert, if a bit curmudgeony at times; he's been a valuable resource for a few of my pet projects and always comes through with good advice with well-documented references. Good with the bad, and all that I guess.

 

[DanMcS]

Well, he's also been caught posting bad reviews of products that directly competing with his own, and claiming it's not a conflict of interest, so more than a grain of salt is needed when viewing his opinions of other RPG gun books.

 

[Cergorach]

Well, he's also been caught posting bad reviews of products that directly competing with his own, and claiming it's not a conflict of interest, so more than a grain of salt is needed when viewing his opinions of other RPG gun books.

I would say a truck load ar two should suffice ;-)

 

[Ranger REG]

I understand that Dana has his own series of gun books. But when he's over on the Wizards boards dropping comments like...

He does, which partly explained his strong commentary about his competitors' wares. Sometimes it takes such an effort to get a constructive opinions out of his posts.

 

[HarryFlashman]

I have neither looked at these books nor do i play any modern games *yet*

Between Weapon's locker, Ultra Modern Firearms and Big Bang (Dana's book), do any of them differentiate between:

1. rounds used?
2. recoil systems?
3. popularity ( when the firearm in question were popular, among which people/groups, for what purpose)

My primary beef with 3E and D20 in general is its lack of statistics for weapons. I miss weapon speeds. While I appreciate reach stats some weapons were simple easier to weild and recover with than others. I feel that such extra statisitics give each weapon its own niche without forcing players to use such statistics.

What stats do the above three books bring into play? Would someone be willing to give us a sample write up for the same weapon from each of the three books?

My favourite firearms source has always been Ken Hood's Grim-n-Gritty system because it does take different calibres and recoil effecting systems into account to model weapons. While it is undoubtedly imperfect I think any other syste mof detailing firearms for roleplaying use would be remiss to ignore such facts of life.

Also, is there a sourcebook that details only larger weapons such as flak guns, tank armament, and mortars?

 

[Gallo22]

I looked at the Weapon's Locker and I must say it's about one of the most boring firearms book I have ever seen. I have to agree with what another poster said, nothing but the same stats repeated for similar guns with the same name. Why not save yourself some money ,print some weapons/firearms info from the web, and make your own stats, comparing them to the main book.

Super boring! Maybe I'll pick it up in 6 months for $10 on ebay.

Gallo22