d20M 2e: Wish lists

[buzz]

I saw the Mongoose Modern Pocket Player's Handbook today. It has all the FX rules and the Telepath, Battle Mind, Mage and Accolyte FX advanced classes (no Shadow Slayer or Occultist though, nor any classes from Urban Arcana).

Curses! Foiled again... Guess my zeal overpowered my addled memory.

The RPG Objects one eliminates the FX, at least.
http://www.rpgobjects.com/index.php?page=pro&product_id=34

 

[buzz]

Things I don't want to see in d20M 2.0 (er 3.5), uh Revised, uh whatever. . .

1. More detail for guns.

FTR, I don't necesasrily need more detail. I just get the impression that guns and gun-related mechanics could have been done *better*. If that means snagging the gun rules from Spycraft, I'm all for it.

 

[teitan]

Let's not forget that the SRDs for both games are free.

Yeah, but that means very little if you don't have the flavour text to explain those rules in some sort of context AND Joe Blow and Jane Smane don't necessarily notice things like SRD which aren't necessarily meant for gamers but for people interested in publishing... sure they are nice for us to examine and look at before making a purchase but I think the "that isn't open content" or "WOTC doesn't have any Open Content in product Z and they suxk for it" amongst NON-publishing fandom is ridiculous. At any rate, MOST people PREFER a hardcopy of the book as opposed to a print copy. D20 Modern included D&Disms to attract the D&D crowd to the product and to serve as a possible crossover to D20 Modern players to check out D&D, its called cross-pollination and is beneficial to WOTC business.

Urban Arcana was a flop? Sells pretty well around here so I didn't notice, especially considering most people I know that play D20M play Urban Arcana... and WHY do we need a SETTING for Urban Arcana when the setting surrounds us? When the setting is something we already know so much about and all Urban Arcana is about is manipulating OUR world and throwing in some magic? The whole arguement that Urban Arcana needs a setting is bullocks.

Jason

 

[teitan]

I can understand the problem people have with D&D in D20 Modern myself, in spite of the above post but I understand the inclusion but the book itself doesn't support Urban Arcana more than Shadow Chasers. Yeah, Agents of Psi gets the short end of the stick.

Me I LOVE Urban Arcana, and I wish they had included MORE FX in the book but what they did with D20 Modern was they made an introductory product that also tried to appeal to D&D players and that is fine by me because the D&D stuff is as easy to ignore as a Jean Claude Van Damme movie.

I also think the D&D stuff was thrown in to show what all you can do with the game right out of the box by providing several ideas for campaigns that you can create. With judicious use of the magic FX you could create a subtle magic modern fantasy setting like Mage or Changeling etc. and I think the inclusion of this material helps to show off the products versatility and its inclusion helps to get people playing the kind of game they want to run without a lot of work or having to wait for new products, I mean c'mon, how long is it between supplements from WOTC? Lets face it, a big chunk of gamers only buy "official" products and if they have to wait the 5-6 months before the next product they aren't really going to get a good idea of what they can do with the product are they????

Jason

 

[Geoff]

Overall I think d20 Modern is a very strong set of rules right out of the box. There really isn't anything that needs fixing in my experience, maybe a minor tweak here or there, but nothing that would require a second edition.

Layout or procedure-wise, the only thing I'd change is presenting occupations before the base classes. I've found after statting up scores of NPC's that I choose the occupation first based upon my concept for the character.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I, too, would have liked to see the D&D crap pulled from D20Modern. I know where they were going with it ... sort of tying their flagship product to this new product. Personally, I think it backfired.

With the CONCENTRATION (and I'll call it that) on D&D In Modern Day, they watered the actual game down. On the whole, I think that's the major problem I have with d20 Modern. The watered-down-ness.

Here's what I wish D20 Modern had been ... Alternity. I'd have liked to see the edgy graphic design work and generality ... and DEPARTURE FROM D&D that we found in Alternity. (IE, taking out that darned holy bovine Vancian magic system)

I use D20M to play Alternity stuff. When D20Future comes out, one of my game group is planning on running a Star*Drive campaign with it.

They're revisiting alot of the Alternity "stuff" with D20Modern/Future ... monsters in the Menace Manual, a little nugget of Dark*Matter in Poly. I think it was a wrong move, really.

They were pulling for "New Gamers" with D20Modern, I think. Urban "hip" clothing, ties back to their flagship product, dwarves with piercings, etc etc. They were looking to pull in a bit of those sales numbers from the 16-20 crowd that helped the new D&D go crazy. In the end, it just seemed like we were paying +$5 per product to have them rehash what we already had. "But nobody wants to buy ALL the books to play fantasy modern...." ... yea, but like others have said, if people are interested in using Illithids in their Modern games ... they already know what an Illithid is and that means they have the other books.

I think they'd have actually done much better approaching it like they had Alternity. I think they avoided that because it didn't sell well ... but I think the lack of sales there had more to do with the current state of the market (bad) and the state of TSR at the time (bad again).

I can wish into one hand ... But I know I'd have bought the new Dark*Matter setting book, if naught else.

--fje

 

[buzz]

Yeah, but that means very little if you don't have the flavour text to explain those rules in some sort of context AND Joe Blow and Jane Smane don't necessarily notice things like SRD which aren't necessarily meant for gamers but for people interested in publishing...

Nonetheless, the SRD exists and is free to use, should the need arise.

The whole arguement that Urban Arcana needs a setting is bullocks.

It's an opinion. I wrote a review of UA for RPG.net, and it was a major point for me. Some people I've encountered don't see it as a problem, though. I just would have preferred 320 pages of setting to 320 pages of advice. Maybe I was simply expecting the wrong thing.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

And that's the problem with that list there is a load of stuff listed that isn't really D20 Modern, and much of that is the hardcopy published stuff.

For example the Crime Scene series by Hogshead isn't D20 Modern, its D20 in a modern setting but it doesn't build on D20 Modern's skill set it instead introduces its own, it doesn't use D20 Modern's base classes and instead introduces its own class system. So that's 4 supposed D20 Modern products that arn't actually readly useable without some conversion work.

The Horizon series is the same (That's minus another 3). X-Crawl, Real Life Roleplay, etc. etc. Most of these don't require D20 Modern and use none of its rules, in fact adapting them to D20 Modern would involve a lot of work. When you strip away all of that there isn't actually anywhere near as many products as your list makes out.

Most of what's on that list isn't immediately of use to someone using D20 Modern without some major alterations. It would be handy if you list actually listed what used the D20 Modern rules, and not there own version of the D20, or at least had a tick box to that effect.

That's very disappointing to hear. Most of the adventures wouldn't be too difficult to convert, I think, but it will be very annoying dealing with NPCs.

Here's what I wish D20 Modern had been ... Alternity. I'd have liked to see the edgy graphic design work and generality ... and DEPARTURE FROM D&D that we found in Alternity. (IE, taking out that darned holy bovine Vancian magic system)

Yeah, ALTERNITY's Dark*Matter setting had magic (it wasn't in the core rules, though... ahem) and it's magic was quite different. More importantly (since DnD magic = D20 magic IMO) were the nature of the monsters.

The monsters weren't DnD monsters, and most didn't use magic. You didn't have efreets running major corporations either.

 

[teitan]

I would LOVE to see a nonVancian system of magic for D20 Modern myself, but WOTC isn't going to provide it as they want D20M to tie in with D&D to create that crossover audience. A more Alternity style approach would rock, maybe WOTC chould release an FX book similar to the Alternity book? I would love to see the Dark Matter magick system converted to D20 Modern...

Jason

 

[buzz]

I would LOVE to see a nonVancian system of magic for D20 Modern myself, but WOTC isn't going to provide it as they want D20M to tie in with D&D to create that crossover audience. A more Alternity style approach would rock, maybe WOTC chould release an FX book similar to the Alternity book? I would love to see the Dark Matter magick system converted to D20 Modern...

If I heard correctly, d20 Future is going to have some sort of distinct psionics system... but don't quote me.

There's also GR's The Psychic's Handbook, which has a feat/skill system akin to Alternity FX system, and there's another company working on a wholly new magic system for d20M, but the name escapes me...