D20Modern - massive damage threshold

[hong]

So instead I'll just point out that knights chose big weapons to hit each other with, not daggers. The one exception I can think of is the misericord, a dagger used for "mercy killing" which had a narrow blade that could be thrust through chinks in the armour of a downed foe to finish him off. You could easily replicated that with an exotic weapon dagger which ignored DR when performing a coup-de-gras. Fact is, that real world daggers were *not* made to "pierce full plates"

Regardless, there are a lot of character archetypes that revolve around anachronisms, and a realistic combat system isn't always the best one. Heck, I'd go so far as to say it's _rarely_ the best one.

 

[Petrosian]

One idea i have been toying with is adding a portion of any armor/equipment or natural armor bonus to the save throw for massive damage.

Say, for instance, take half the equipmnt bonus and apply it as a positive adjustment to the MD save rolls.

This way, armor would help you resist the most serious "shock" issues from guns and blows but not be something that requires new calculations with every hit.

Given the relatively slow save progressions, this does not seem out of whack.

Thoughts?

 

[Plane Sailing]

If I wasn't going to change armour to DR/hardness, that is something that I would do - although I'd probably go all the way and add the armour value to the massive damage save. Much more difficult to take down someone well equipped with modern "armour"

 

[Gez]

Fact is, that real world daggers were *not* made to "pierce full plates"

It did. Not actually pierce, if you prefer, merely target the holes between the plates. Otherwise, they also used big smashing weapons able to crush the enemy knight in its tin can.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

One idea i have been toying with is adding a portion of any armor/equipment or natural armor bonus to the save throw for massive damage.

I think you are on the right track, but I would instead add it directly to the threshold:

MDT = Con + armor bonus + natural armor bonus.

This helps out the big critters you were worried about, as well, in a big way, without scaling exponentially.

I also worry about Con being too heavily weighted in general, but I am willing to give it a try first.

By the way, I am a vote strongly in favor of (a) retaining hit points and (b) using AC/defense bonus, not DR-- for speed of play/calculation reduction issues. Adding armor values to the MDT does not add any additional calculations during play. It also means you have to hit the armored opponent harder to kill him, but he'll still feel every ounce of the hit with regards to his hit points.


Wulf

 

[Red Baron]

Gotta say, for what it's worth: If you feel the need to change the rules at all, Wulf's variant seems the most eloquent to me.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Gotta say, for what it's worth: If you feel the need to change the rules at all, Wulf's variant seems the most eloquent to me.

That's why I get paid the big Game Designer bucks!

Errr.... NOT.


Wulf

 

[Red Baron]

That's why I get paid the big Game Designer bucks!

Errr.... NOT.

Wulf

Heh.

Guess that's why I get paid the big Editor/Developer bucks (er, not!)... by recognizing good stuff when I see it...

 

[Hawkshere]

I like Wulf's suggestion a lot, too. However, there might be circumstantial conditions to consider as well. For example, worn armor should not contibute to MDT vs. energy damage, in my opinion. I'm guessing that d20M has touch attacks as well. So the caveat would be: only add the AC value of the armor bonus to the MDT if it also applied to the attack roll.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Worn armor should not contibute to MDT vs. energy damage, in my opinion. I'm guessing that d20M has touch attacks as well. So the caveat would be: only add the AC value of the armor bonus to the MDT if it also applied to the attack roll.

I don't think the added complexity is worth the added "realism."

Moreover I don't see why armor shouldn't apply to energy attacks. If I am hit with an open flame I certainly would rather be wearing armor than not. The armor will absorb the damage before your body does.

Wulf