d6 HD for Wizards and Sorcerers

[Terath Ninir]

That would about sum up the house rule I'm thinking of. (This thread is a spinoff of the Toughness thread.) Yes, the magic user has had a d4 since time immemorial. We also use to use "to hit" tables and THAC0. Doesn't mean it's a good thing, though.

Now, granted, this could cause a slight problem for those classes that already have a d6 HD, the bard and the rogue. Bump 'em up to a d8. Now they are on a par with the HD that animals have. Rogues and bards are weaker than animals? Seems odd. They lead rather strenuous lives. The rogue is in danger all the time and the bard is travelling all the time. Not really something that would make them weaker than the average HD, I would think.

So the weak classes are boosted up a bit, and the DM doesn't have to fudge the hits on the party mage so often. (Or make the player roll up a new character so often, depending on the playing style.) The strong classes are not weakened. The cleric might be a bit, but it's always been #1 on the lists of most powerful classes, so that's not really a problem.

So what do y'all think?

 

[Valiantheart]

So what do y'all think?

I think you are making the most powerful classes in the game even more powerful by removing their singular weakness.

 

[Aaron2]

I was thinking of making a low level spell that gave wizards 1 temp hit point per level that lasted 1 hour / level. That would have the effect of a d6 hit die but make it more magical in nature. Can't figure out what level to make it.


Aaron

 

[Technik4]

I just don't see why its such a hindrance. I've played in groups where the wizard had the most hit points (Con abuse, gnome+toad, plus other goodies) because the group lacked a fighter. A wizard who wants more hp has many options to get them including but not limited to: feats, spells, magic items, familiar choice and of course what score to place in Con.

If I did do it, the argument would be to make the base classes stronger so that by comparison the prestige classes which offer only d4 hp have an inherent weakness. I could see doing it for that reason.

Technik

 

[Sanackranib]

I was thinking of making a low level spell that gave wizards 1 temp hit point per level that lasted 1 hour / level. That would have the effect of a d6 hit die but make it more magical in nature. Can't figure out what level to make it.


Aaron

2nd or 3rd sounds about right.

 

[Trainz]

They already fixed that in 3.5

2nd level necromancy spell: False life. It gives 1d10 + caster level (max 10) hp's. Which, at the lower levels, is better than having a 1d6 for hit points. Plus, once these temporary hp's are gone, you can recast the spell (great for sorcerors).

'nuff said.

 

[Valiantheart]

I think you're fine.

Who? Me!? And I didnt even do my hair today...

 

[Afrodyte]

That would about sum up the house rule I'm thinking of. (This thread is a spinoff of the Toughness thread.) Yes, the magic user has had a d4 since time immemorial. We also use to use "to hit" tables and THAC0. Doesn't mean it's a good thing, though.

Now, granted, this could cause a slight problem for those classes that already have a d6 HD, the bard and the rogue. Bump 'em up to a d8. Now they are on a par with the HD that animals have. Rogues and bards are weaker than animals? Seems odd. They lead rather strenuous lives. The rogue is in danger all the time and the bard is travelling all the time. Not really something that would make them weaker than the average HD, I would think.

So the weak classes are boosted up a bit, and the DM doesn't have to fudge the hits on the party mage so often. (Or make the player roll up a new character so often, depending on the playing style.) The strong classes are not weakened. The cleric might be a bit, but it's always been #1 on the lists of most powerful classes, so that's not really a problem.

So what do y'all think?

I think a more radical idea would be to do HD by race instead of by class. That way, it all sort of evens out. However, perhaps the fighting classes could get a bump in HD due to the physical wherewithal they develop while training. Off the top of my head, this is what I would use. This is, of course, in lieu of bonuses and penalties to Constitution:

Elves, halflings: d6
Gnomes, half-elves, humans: d8
Dwarves, half-orcs: d10
Fighters and barbarians: bump HD up by 1. I didn't include paladins and rangers because they have other advantages.

However, if you want to keep the stat modifiers for Constitution, this is how I'd do things:

Gnomes, halflings: d6
Dwarves, elves, half-elves, humans: d8
Half-orcs: d10
Fighters and barbarians: bump HD up by 1

 

[Terath Ninir]

I think you are making the most powerful classes in the game even more powerful by removing their singular weakness.

While everyone is more than entitled to their opinion, and I will not even attempt to say that your opinion is wrong, I have not found the wizard to be the most powerful class. And I find the sorcerer to be the weakest. When people, especially on this board, list the classes in order of power, most (more than 2/3rds) list wizards partway down the list, and sorcerer near the bottom, duking it out with the bard (which I personally think is an affront to the bard). So I do not agree at all that it is powerful.

Indeed, I think they can use a boost in their weakest area, hit points. If you have a DM who uses good tactics against a party, the wizard and/or sorcerer is dead wet red meat. They just don't have enough hit points (assuming they are not munchkinised specifically for hit points, which is a special case that does not matter in a general discussion) to survive a concerted attack from the villians. A concerted attack that will happen if the villians are at all smart. A d6 HD would bring them back more in line with reality. Being an academic does not weaken you *that* much. And sorcerers do not study at all, so the only reason they have a d4 HD is to make them match the wizard.

The racial HD idea is interesting. I'm not sure whether it is a good idea or not, but it is intriguing and worth thought. It would get rid of the whole HD sacred cow entirely, which is certainly worth considering. It would certainly give a reason for someone to play a half-orc for once, which is worthwhile in and of itself. It also reduces the power of the cursed barbarian (how I wish it had lived and died only in Unearthed Arcana!) which is an even better thing.

 

[Technik4]

Metagaming?

Since when do the enemies always converge on the wizard? In my experience, if the enemies were intelligent enough to want to neutralize one member of the party, it was the cleric. The cleric, the buffed, powerful hitting, able to heal other party members, and still have an offensive spell or 2 mage. The cleric is also usually more obvious than the mage, as the cleric will be standing near the front in full armor. The mage might be invisible, flying, ethereal, garbed differently (I had a wizard with a penchant for looking like a monk, exactly to dissuade such metagame DM thinking). And if he is out in the open he looks like a robed man (or woman) - not exactly threatening.

If you think targetting wizards and sorcerors every battle is fair, and hence their "weakness" then I think you aren't giving the classes their due. And most monsters in the MM are just going to rush the party's front line, if played according to their intelligence.

Technik