d6 HD for Wizards and Sorcerers

Hmm.

Clerics, druids, wizards, sorcerers (main spellcasters): d6 hitpoints
Rogue, Ranger, Bard, Monk (skillful light fighters): d8 hitpoints
Fighter, Paladin: d10
Barbarian: d12

Yeah, I'd like to see Wotsee go that way. Remove the silly heavy armour prof from the cleric and I'm happy.
 

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Technik, who is more of a threat: a guy who can heal one of his friends once a round, or a guy who can drop a fireball on you once a round? Add in the fact that the guy who is doing the healing is in plate armour, while the guy with the fireballs is completely armour-less, and it becomes an easy choice who you go after. Even a dumb monster is going to know that the guy in the robe is easier to off than the guy incased in metal.

No, a DM who is metagaming goes after the cleric first, to try to prevent healing. An NPC or monster that does what it realistically would do goes after the mage first. It is more important to stop someone from hurting you than it is to stop someone from healing their friend.
 

Technik, who is more of a threat: a guy who can heal one of his friends once a round, or a guy who can drop a fireball on you once a round? Add in the fact that the guy who is doing the healing is in plate armour, while the guy with the fireballs is completely armour-less, and it becomes an easy choice who you go after. Even a dumb monster is going to know that the guy in the robe is easier to off than the guy incased in metal.

No, a DM who is metagaming goes after the cleric first, to try to prevent healing. An NPC or monster that does what it realistically would do goes after the mage first. It is more important to stop someone from hurting you than it is to stop someone from healing their friend.
 

Well you have 2 basic scenarios:

A) The enemy realises that traditionally holy looking "fighters" have a large capacity for healing, dispelling, buffing, and the occasional attack spell and that wimpy robe-wearing commoners are actually bazookas in disguise who can annihilate their entire force if given the chance.

B) The enemy realises that its hungry and these intruders are bothering it. Lunch time.

In A I'd say its a toss up whether to go for the cleric or mage first. First, not every mage is an evoker. It could be one of those trickster illusionists, the charming enchanter, or even just the party buff transmuter. So expending all that effort may not be worth it, without seeing some fireworks first. The heavily armored holy looking guy may just turn out to be a religious fighter, or a paladin, but if you are taking out the cleric youve hit solid gold. Feel free to paralyze the rest of the party, and downed party members may die of bloodloss. Also, youve taken out someone who has a large capacity for inflicting damage every round, whereas a wizard may switch up his magics mid-battle, teleporting away, summoning things (which take a whole round), you can count on a cleric tossing a flamestrike or attacking (while buffed) nearly every round.

Of course, scenario B the monster goes for the closest looking enemy at first, and in later rounds the ones that seem to be piercing its hide more often (the threats). I dont think an owlbear should be able to determine that a wizard cast melf's acid arrow, but it will sure as heck notice the fighter or barbarian in its face hacking away. That pretty much goes on to apply for all levels of play, with monsters (or NPCs) with that much intelligence.

I'm also interested in who ranked above wizard in these polls you were talking about. I mean, obviously cleric. I wouldn't put druid above a wizard or sorceror, and definately not a rogue (how many threads are there about how a high level wizard can out-rogue a rogue? Especially with a couple levels of rogue). With fighters its a toss-up, I see threads with people complaining that wizards aren't viable at high level due to DC nerfs and I see threads complaining that a fighter couldn't possibly keep up with a wizard's damage capacity, not to mention high level adventurers *need* magic - for wizards its a class ability, for fighters it comes out of their gold allotment. The only class I think is better than a wizard is a cleric, and thats dubious depending on campaign because of a lot of monkeying that could happen to your character (if youre into that cool, but its easier to be an independent mage than a cleric).

Wizards have spells like Mage Armor, Shield, Blur, Mirror Image, Displacement, Stoneskin, etc to make up for their low hp with higher AC or spells which deflect/negate attacks. If a wizard wants hp, they have many options (stated earlier) to go about getting them, but I dont think it should be the default for the class.

Technik
 
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I thought of this house rule where every class (or combination of the same HD type) gets maximum hitpoints at every level equal to their HD type divided by 2.

What it results in is that d4 classes get max hitpoints every 2 levels, d6 get max every 3 levels, d8 every 4 levels, d10 every 5 levels and d12 every 6 levels.
 

Cyberzombie said:
Technik, who is more of a threat: a guy who can heal one of his friends once a round, or a guy who can drop a fireball on you once a round?

The guy who can do both.

Druids are scary.
 

Cyberzombie said:
While everyone is more than entitled to their opinion, and I will not even attempt to say that your opinion is wrong, I have not found the wizard to be the most powerful class. And I find the sorcerer to be the weakest. When people, especially on this board, list the classes in order of power, most (more than 2/3rds) list wizards partway down the list, and sorcerer near the bottom, duking it out with the bard (which I personally think is an affront to the bard). So I do not agree at all that it is powerful.

Now here you are completely wrong. Here is the continuation of a poll that was ran both here at ENWorld and at the WOTC boards. The results rank the Wizard as 2nd and the Sorcerer as 4th.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81124&highlight=rank+the+classes
 

Cyberzombie said:
So what do y'all think?

I think it works well for the sorcerer, but I'd shy away from it with the wizard.

The sorcerer needs more incentives to stay a sorcerer, as the class as written has next to no reason not to PrC out at the first opportunity. Having played Monte's sorcerer (with his d6 HD), I quite enjoyed it -- and it didn't make for an unbalanced character.

Wizards get enough goodies as is without also giving them a respectable hit die. ;)
 

My suggestion -- cut the Gordian knot.

If you want to up the Wizard and the Sorcerer one die category, up everyone else one die category as well, including the monsters. This way, damage stays the same, but everything has more HP. Overall survivability increases, fights last a little longer, so wizards and sorcerers can use more of those spells they're so fond of... :D
 

Personally, I think that this is probably a bad idea.

The simple fact is that the arcane classes probably have the greatest capacity for damage-dealing of any class in the game (possible exception: assault druid). They have one primary weakness: a poor HD.

Moreover, they can circumvent this weakness. An arcane caster usually put his second highest stat into Con, meaning that he quite often ends up with more hit points than either the rogue or bard, who have to scatter their high scores into around three or more different abilities. Secondly, the arcane caster can use buff spells to increase his Con, such as Endurance, or to just immediately increase his hit points (False Life). Thirdly, the (high level) arcane caster is often the best protected of any combatant. Even from the low levels, Mage Armour + Shield gives the mage a better AC than any other combatant (we assume no level 1 fighters have full plate). By mid-levels, they can use Improved Invisibility, effectively halving the effectiveness of physical attacks, and Blink, reducing the effectiveness of all attacks. At high levels, Prismatic Wall and Prismatic Sphere can short-circuit practically any form of attack short of dimensional travel (rare, and can be blocked via Dimensional Lock/Anchor) or Mordenkainen's Disjunction (very rare indeed).

Wizards rarely find their lack of HD a major problem at the high levels, when they become dominant. If they lack hit points at low level, this is a 'balancing-out' their immense power at high level; and in any case can be compensated for by a decent Con, a toad familiar or False Life.
 

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