Dagger damage!

[MarauderX]

No one carries, let alone uses, daggers. To bring this essential light weapon back to the forground, I am thinking of making the following change in my campaigns.

A dagger, when used as the primary weapon, does 1d12 damage to opponents that are flatfooted or otherwise denied their dexterity bonus. Rogues using daggers, as a special class ability, also do 1d12 damage when flanking. Rogues still add the extra Xd6 for backstabbing.

The dagger as a light weapon is easier to guide around an opponents armor or into certain weaknesses. Using a short sword or rapier for such things is still effective, but is clumsier. The effect I am looking for is to have the weapon as deadlier than others when unseen, just like many movies. But when an opponent sees the puny knife, the rogue quickly realizes he better upgrade or be stuck with 1d4.

Thoughts? Concerns? Compliments?

 

[Ferret]

I think it should be a feat. Anything like that would have everyone carrying daggers and swinging them round. Also it seems like people should need training to do that short of stuff.

Still I am liking the idea!

 

[Darklone]

Hmm. I had some dagger houserules:
- Using a dagger, everyone has the Quickdraw feat.
- Drawing and using a dagger in a grapple is by +4 easier than a normal weapon (e.g. no penalties). Adding Quickdraw means you can draw a dagger as a free action after a successful grapple check and attack normally with it.
- TWF with daggers is easier by 1 point.
- daggers always only get half str bonus to damage (as balancing factor to all these advantages).

Another houserule:
- Attacking someone who's flatfooted gives you +1d6 sneak attack damage.

Daggerfighting rogues at level 1 rock

 

[Nifft]

Daggers are already really, really strong.

You can throw them! They're the only weapon with which you can use TWF and Rapid Shot together.

There are special prestige classes focused on daggers (Daggerspell Mage & Shaper, Invisible Blade, Master Thrower).

They're easy to conceal (with Sleight of Hand).

I'm a fan of daggers as-is. Your group may not be using them, but you can feel free to use them on your group!

Cheers, -- N

 

[Darklone]

You can throw them! They're the only weapon with which you can use TWF and Rapid Shot together.

Why should this not work with handaxes or javelins?

 

[Nifft]

Why should this not work with handaxes or javelins?

Good point on handaxes. Javelins you can't use in melee (right?).

-- N

 

[Darklone]

Sorry, meant shortspears. Granted, daggers have a better critical range... but the other two weapons have better damage.

Edit: Cool, the club can be thrown as well

 

[comrade raoul]

I designed a few handy dagger feats a while back. They're linked to in my signature.

 

[Kwitchit]

The main advantage to a dagger is cultural. In your average medieval society, everyone over the age of 8 or so owns and carries one. You're also allowed to take one where any other weapon (except perhaps a walking staff) would be frowned on or outright forbidden.

 

[Nifft]

Sorry, meant shortspears. Granted, daggers have a better critical range... but the other two weapons have better damage.

Edit: Cool, the club can be thrown as well

Daggers are LIGHT and SIMPLE. That's huge.

Shortspears are simple, but one-handed (not light, so no TWF).
Handaxes can't be thrown (and are not simple).
Throwing Axes have lame crit stats, and are not simple.
Clubs have lame crit stats, and are not light (no TWF).

Daggers are nice.

-- N