Daggerheart 1.3 playtest dropping Tuesday.

[OB1]

The point of the argument is that there isn't a rule for that in 5E (or any version of D&D) even if it is something some tables have been doing. It was codified in DH, because it isn't an uncommon rule in narrative games in general, but D&D isn't a narrative game.

I'll actually be curious to see if something like it shows up in the 2024 DMG and, if so, how folks respond.

I'd say it falls under the basic order of play, DM describes the scene, PC decides what action to take, DM describes the result, sometimes asking for a die roll if the results are uncertain. There was no uncertainty about the outcome of the PCs action, so Mercer didn't ask for a d20 roll.

That said, I do think the DH rule does a good job of sparking the imagination around the particular event in question, encouraging players to think about the story implications of what's happening.

 

[Reynard]

I think it would be fine as an optional rule.

Sure, I guess? Some tables would likely embrace it. But for me it falls way too far on the stortime side of the line.

In other words, the dice decide stuff like that, IMO.

 

[overgeeked]

Non specific C391 Spoiler

Spoiler: Spoiler

One of the characters sacrifices themselves to take out the big enemy they are fighting in the episode. It's similar to the Blaze of Glory mechanic in DH but also well within the rules of 5e. I think people are overstating the DH effect.

Please point me to the rules in 5E that support this. Something more concrete than “the referee can do whatever they want.”

 

[OB1]

From the PHB​

How to Play​

The play of the Dungeons & Dragons game unfolds according to this basic pattern.

1. The DM describes the environment. The DM tells the players where their adventurers are and what’s around them, presenting the basic scope of options that present themselves (how many doors lead out of a room, what’s on a table, who’s in the tavern, and so on).
2. The players describe what they want to do. Sometimes one player speaks for the whole party, saying, “We’ll take the east door,” for example. Other times, different adventurers do different things: one adventurer might search a treasure chest while a second examines an esoteric symbol engraved on a wall and a third keeps watch for monsters. The players don’t need to take turns, but the DM listens to every player and decides how to resolve those actions.
   Sometimes, resolving a task is easy. If an adventurer wants to walk across a room and open a door, the DM might just say that the door opens and describe what lies beyond. But the door might be locked, the floor might hide a deadly trap, or some other circumstance might make it challenging for an adventurer to complete a task. In those cases, the DM decides what happens, often relying on the roll of a die to determine the results of an action.
3. The DM narrates the results of the adventurers’ actions. Describing the results often leads to another decision point, which brings the flow of the game right back to step 1.

I can go into the specifics of the situation in EP91 if you would like, but it will require full spoilers for why this rule applies.

 

[OB1]

Complete explanation (contains spoilers for all of CR C3 up to episode 91)

Spoiler: Critical Role Campaign 3 Spoilers

The more I think about it, the less what happened in episode 91 fits the Blaze of Glory mechanic from DH. To start with, BoG occurs when a PC has reached the point of death. In this episode, FCG still had hit points remaining, though both he and the party were all very low. He also didn't just decide to go out in a blaze of glory, and then came up with a rational after the fact, what he did was predicated on the established fiction in the game over the course of 91 episodes. The relevant parts are

• FCG is an aeormeton (similar species to Warforged)
• Aeormetons are powered by an arcane core in this world
• Arcane Cores are used in several episodes as the basis for powerful explosives (like, blowing up stone buildings powerful). The episode just before 91 had just such a plot, and we saw the tremendous damage they could do.
• FCG learns in the campaign that his core could be overloaded, causing him to explode
• FCG speculates that if they were ever in dire need, he could purposefully overload his core to blow up
• FCG also has programming that causes him to go berserk when he is under Stress (a special mechanic created for him)
• That programming comes from the fact that he was originally built to be an assassination robot, who's job was to infiltrate as a helpful robot before destroying his target
• FCG has fought with his own nature, and whether he was truly alive, all campaign.
• Other PCs have worried that FCG might have a death wish.
• With things looking like a TPK in 91 (including meta chatter around the table), and Fresh Cut Grass in Berserker mode, he lures the enemy to him away from the rest of the group, declares that he is alive, and casts a guiding bolt on himself to overload his core and take out the enemy
• Mercer does not ask for a d20 roll to do this, he declares it successful, and then has the player roll an insane amount of dice for damage, which all the other PCs join in to help with.
• The enemy is killed, along with FCG, and the remaining PCs are able to escape
• So yes, FCG went out in a 'Blaze of Glory' but it had nothing to do with the rules in Daggerheart.

 

[Reynard]

Complete explanation (contains spoilers for all of CR C3 up to episode 91)

Spoiler: Critical Role Campaign 3 Spoilers

The more I think about it, the less what happened in episode 91 fits the Blaze of Glory mechanic from DH. To start with, BoG occurs when a PC has reached the point of death. In this episode, FCG still had hit points remaining, though both he and the party were all very low. He also didn't just decide to go out in a blaze of glory, and then came up with a rational after the fact, what he did was predicated on the established fiction in the game over the course of 91 episodes. The relevant parts are

• FCG is an aeormeton (similar species to Warforged)
• Aeormetons are powered by an arcane core in this world
• Arcane Cores are used in several episodes as the basis for powerful explosives (like, blowing up stone buildings powerful). The episode just before 91 had just such a plot, and we saw the tremendous damage they could do.
• FCG learns in the campaign that his core could be overloaded, causing him to explode
• FCG speculates that if they were ever in dire need, he could purposefully overload his core to blow up
• FCG also has programming that causes him to go berserk when he is under Stress (a special mechanic created for him)
• That programming comes from the fact that he was originally built to be an assassination robot, who's job was to infiltrate as a helpful robot before destroying his target
• FCG has fought with his own nature, and whether he was truly alive, all campaign.
• Other PCs have worried that FCG might have a death wish.
• With things looking like a TPK in 91 (including meta chatter around the table), and Fresh Cut Grass in Berserker mode, he lures the enemy to him away from the rest of the group, declares that he is alive, and casts a guiding bolt on himself to overload his core and take out the enemy
• Mercer does not ask for a d20 roll to do this, he declares it successful, and then has the player roll an insane amount of dice for damage, which all the other PCs join in to help with.
• The enemy is killed, along with FCG, and the remaining PCs are able to escape
• So yes, FCG went out in a 'Blaze of Glory' but it had nothing to do with the rules in Daggerheart.

Now I need to watch that bit, just to see the mood at the table.

Also, yeah, it doesn't sound anything like the DH BoG mechanic.

 

[OB1]

Now I need to watch that bit, just to see the mood at the table.

Also, yeah, it doesn't sound anything like the DH BoG mechanic.

Absolutely worth watching for the way the mood shifts at the table. Wonderful moment. Don't have a timestamp, but it's in the last 30-40 minutes of the episode. Go a little before, when the meta talk about a TPK begins.

 

[overgeeked]

Here's the text of the Daggerheart mechanic.

"Death
Facing death is an important part of being an adventurer, and having a character die can be an exciting end to a story and an opportunity for the player to transition into something new. In Daggerheart, when you mark your last hit point, you must make a death move.

Death Move
Choose one of the options below.

Blaze of Glory. You embrace death and go out in a blaze of glory. Take one action (at GM discretion), which becomes an automatic critical success, then cross through the veil of death."

For reference, FCG was down to one hit point, attacked himself...marking his last hit point...and blew up the baddie with 20d8 damage. There was no to hit or save. People on Reddit were tracking the numbers of the fight. With the resistances the baddie had, even the massive damage FCG did wouldn't have done enough (the baddie had just healed nearly the same amount), unless FCG's attack was a crit and dealt double damage. So other than it being a game of D&D instead of Daggerheart, the mechanics line up exactly.

 

[Fifth Element]

That’s exactly what we see here. The fun is everyone collaboratively takes turns and enjoys just playing a game together with a loose initiative.

Then the gamers step in and find the exploit or grind that removes risk and fun to win the game in the easiest possible way, in this case by denying your fellow players their ability to actually play the game.

I for one am very surprised to learn that some people who play RPGs prefer to play them in ways that I don't, but at least I can rest assured that I'm the one actually playing the game while they're just doing something that I can poo-poo.