Daggerheart General Thread [+]

[Aldarc]

Classes and Domains and deply interconnected mechanics, and folks who think they can whip up a new Domain in a weekend that actually works are, generally, wrong.

This past month, I was talking with people online who were thinking of using DH for playing Pirates of Dark Water (with the serial numbers filed off). The core resolution system itself was not the problem. In fact, it was agreed that it would work well: e.g., GM spends Fear for Dark Water to show up. However, the project didn't really go anywhere after it was pointed out how much work it would require to create new classes and domains for Daggerheart that were actually thematically and tonally appropriate for the setting.

 

[Reynard]

This past month, I was talking with people online who were thinking of using DH for playing Pirates of Dark Water (with the serial numbers filed off). The core resolution system itself was not the problem. In fact, it was agreed that it would work well: e.g., GM spends Fear for Dark Water to show up. However, the project didn't really go anywhere after it was pointed out how much work it would require to create new classes and domains for Daggerheart that were actually thematically and tonally appropriate for the setting.

I think that is why you mostly see new adversaries and environments, and campaign frames. The work on classes and domains is HARD.

 

[Reynard]

On Incredible Creatures vs Menagerie of Mayhem:

I was going through both in search of adversaries and environments for my DH game, and I think Incredible Creatures is the superior product. I would love it is MoM was longer, but even ignoring that, the ideas in IC are cooler IMO.

 

[Vael]

I think that is why you mostly see new adversaries and environments, and campaign frames. The work on classes and domains is HARD.

Truth. I've been noodling around an Eberron conversion for Daggerheart, and been playing with a Creation Domain for an Artificer class and a Psionic Domain ... because I like Psionics ... and it's been a challenge. I can see why the team is taking their time adding additional domains and why Hope & Fear only adds the Dread domain. Blood isn't ready.

Though ... also, tbh, I am glad that Adversaries and Environments are taking point. I'm very impressed with how complete a package the core set is, but having more toys in the DM toolbox is something I feel I need.

 

[Aldarc]

Truth. I've been noodling around an Eberron conversion for Daggerheart, and been playing with a Creation Domain for an Artificer class and a Psionic Domain ... because I like Psionics ... and it's been a challenge. I can see why the team is taking their time adding additional domains and why Hope & Fear only adds the Dread domain. Blood isn't ready.

IMHO, part of the issue is the combination of Class + Domain 1/Domain 2 with the possibility of Domains existing for multiple class configurations. And I do get the impression that some domains were designed mostly for one class in particular, with their other domain being more secondary. While I think that this works for Daggerheart, I'm not sure if it's the best way to design for other possible DH hacks.

 

[zakael19]

Creation Domain for an Artificer class and a Psionic Domain ... because I like Psionics ... and it's been a challenge.

So I’ve recast a lot of the domains as psionics for the 40k hack since that’s its thing, and one thing I quickly realized is that existing domain cards were hitting most of the standard 40k psionics stuff already (Grace in particular). Renaming things & changing the class/subclasses around got me telekines / telepaths / diviners pretty easily.

All that to say you could probably hit this via subclasses or a class without having to go full domain?

 

[Aldarc]

So I’ve recast a lot of the domains as psionics for the 40k hack since that’s its thing, and one thing I quickly realized is that existing domain cards were hitting most of the standard 40k psionics stuff already (Grace in particular). Renaming things & changing the class/subclasses around got me telekines / telepaths / diviners pretty easily.

All that to say you could probably hit this via subclasses or a class without having to go full domain?

This hits at one of my issues though with Daggerheart's domain design. The Grace domain was clearly designed so that that the Bard could do Bard things, much in the way that the Codex domain was designed so a book Wizard could do book Wizard things. At times it feels like the class cart was designed before the domain horse. But as you say, a lot of the potential psionic/mind stuff is also in Grace, along with a lot of junk that Psychic class wouldn't necessarily need or want.

 

[Vael]

So I’ve recast a lot of the domains as psionics for the 40k hack since that’s its thing, and one thing I quickly realized is that existing domain cards were hitting most of the standard 40k psionics stuff already (Grace in particular). Renaming things & changing the class/subclasses around got me telekines / telepaths / diviners pretty easily.

All that to say you could probably hit this via subclasses or a class without having to go full domain?

Conceivably. Telekinesis is in Arcana, and yeah, Grace hits some notes that an Empath/Telepath would have. Admittedly, this meant I didn't even make a "Psion" class ... I'd have a Telepath class with Psionic + Grace, Metamorph with Psionic + Bone as a start. Arguably one could try to do a Psion as an Arcana + Grace class. I think one of the Critical Role Daggerheart let's plays had a custom class with those domains?

This hits at one of my issues though with Daggerheart's domain design. The Grace domain was clearly designed so that that the Bard could do Bard things, much in the way that the Codex domain was designed so a book Wizard could do book Wizard things. At times it feels like the class cart was designed before the domain horse. But as you say, a lot of the potential psionic/mind stuff is also in Grace, along with a lot of junk that Psychic class wouldn't necessarily need or want.

But also this. Some domains feel like they don't quite fit when being matched to a class. Or at least the conception of the class that I have. Or ... even worse, what I expect a class to do is scattered across three or more domains, and reflavouring/refluffing doesn't quite get me there.

That said ... I still like this structure for Daggerheart classes. I think has interesting possibilities and I like that it does break down design into manageable pieces. Sure, Domains are hard, but compared to having to generate a full suite of powers like in 4e, or just ... I'm less and less enamoured with 5e class design, that feels more like a straitjacket than Daggerheart does, right now.