Damage Reduction Hierarchy ???

Goolpsy said:
The 3.5 seems too easy to overcome in many cases. It also seems unreal that 2 beasts of equal strenght cannot hurt eachother..
Note that DR values in 3.5 are generally a LOT lower. For example, IIRC the iron golem in 3.0 had DR 50/+3. Good luck getting through that if you don't have a +3 weapon. In 3.5, it has 15/adamantine. That's still a lot, but definitely doable at 13th level (since it's a CR 13 creature).

Some minor demon is just as easy to damage (DR wise) as a Balor...
No, they're not. The Balor has DR 15/cold iron and good. None of the other demons in the MM have DR that good. The second best is the marilith with DR 10/cold iron and good. After that you have a bunch (Bebilith, Glabrezu, Hezrou, Nalfeshnee, and Vrock) with 10/good, and below that another bunch with 10 or 5/cold iron OR good.
 

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3.0 DR was probably designed around average. I guess that when you faces a creature with 50/+3, the party was assumed to be at a level where some (but not all) of the characters had +3 weapons. So if for example half of the party had +3 weapons, the average DR would result in 25, while a slightly higher level party could have 3 +3 weapons in 4 (fighting) characters, with average 12.5.

Now if 1 of four has the adamantine weapon (just supposing that the others have bought different materials so that the whole party covers more monsters), he alone beats DR, and party average for DR 15 is 11.75.

The problem as a party it's probably about the same. It's very different for the individuals instead.

I think most players would just hate to find themselves in a fight where they cannot just hurt the monster, and here's why the majority prefers a lower DR even if it more difficult to overcome.

The bright side of not being able to hurt a monster is however that the player is forced to come up with creative ideas during that fight, instead of just soaking damage to the opponent.

One mechanical difference remains anyway. With the old DR, there was a grey (i.e. interesting) area around a certain party level, because if NONE of you had strong enough weapons then you had almost no chances, while if ALL of you had +3 or better, then DR was irrelevant.
With the new DR it's probably about as interesting at every level, because different materials have relatively low costs (at least, after a certain minimum level) but you cannot stack them, so if ONE of you has an adamantine weapon at level 5, it's not true that ALL of you will ever have one.

My conclusion is that both DR system work quite fine. For sheer style I prefer the new one, just because it's more flavor to deal with different materials or holy/unholy weapons instead of just a number. (It does have anyway a small balance drawback, in that it downgrades the usefulness of enchantments larger than +1).
 

Li Shenron said:
(It does have anyway a small balance drawback, in that it downgrades the usefulness of enchantments larger than +1).
I see that as a plus. I mean, which is cooler, a long sword +3 or a flaming abberration-bane long sword +1?
 

Li Shenron said:
I think most players would just hate to find themselves in a fight where they cannot just hurt the monster, and here's why the majority prefers a lower DR even if it more difficult to overcome.

I remember one of the designers saying that they wanted to eliminate the "you must be this tall to fight this monster" factor.
 

Dr. Awkward said:
I remember one of the designers saying that they wanted to eliminate the "you must be this tall to fight this monster" factor.
:lol: That's a great quote.

No one I've gamed with has ever complained about 3.5e's DR system. .....the spell duration changes, OTOH.....
 

Nail said:
:lol: That's a great quote.

No one I've gamed with has ever complained about 3.5e's DR system. .....the spell duration changes, OTOH.....

Monte Cook quibbled with it. His point was that they designed the escalating prices for magic weapons in 3.0 based on the fact that you needed the higher "plussed" weapons to hit certain creatures. Currently, it's not as big a difference between having a +1 weapon and a +5 weapon to justify the much higher cost.

One major change is you'll now see higher level characters carrying silver weapons. In 3.0, once everyone had a +1 weapon, silver was obsolete.

You can read it in his words http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?otherd20_damage_reduction
 


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