Damage Reduction

[Paladin]

Re: Re: Demons vs. Devils

Judging by the stuff in the conversion book, demons will likely have one of these DR negators: "good or cold iron", "good", or "good and cold iron". In other words, Lawful doesn't enter into it.

Maybe not for fiends, but for other alignment sensitive sorts it will: The Balor entry says, "A balor's natural weapons, as well as any weapons it wields, are treated as chaotic-aligned and evil-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction." So - balors overcome chaotic and evil DR (and I'd say chaotic or evil DR too).

The aligned weapons apparently whip up on true neutral aligned beings - the Rilmani from Fiend Folio have DR 10 (or 15)/good or evil or lawful or chaotic. Ouch.

 

[Staffan]

Re: Re: Re: Demons vs. Devils

Maybe not for fiends, but for other alignment sensitive sorts it will: The Balor entry says, "A balor's natural weapons, as well as any weapons it wields, are treated as chaotic-aligned and evil-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction." So - balors overcome chaotic and evil DR (and I'd say chaotic or evil DR too).

Yeah, but I was responding to the guy who brought up the blood war. That's pretty much a fiendish thing.

I checked out the conversion book for some former Celestials with DR to see what they got at the more powerful levels. The only one I found with a dual DR was the Firre who has DR 10/cold iron or evil. That's probably more due to the pseudo-fey nature of the eladrin, however, than any general celestial quality.

The aligned weapons apparently whip up on true neutral aligned beings - the Rilmani from Fiend Folio have DR 10 (or 15)/good or evil or lawful or chaotic. Ouch.

Yeah, that's a bit nasty. Personally, I think higher-level Rilmani should have something like DR 10 (or 15)/any two alignments, just like lower-level devils have DR X/good or silver and really tough ones have DR X/good and silver.

Another interesting note about DR: The para-elementals have DR 5/- or 10/- depending on size. Now that's yummy.

 

[James McMurray]

Are these conversions given in the new MM, or somewhere else?

 

[Mearlin]

Im not sure if the rules have changed in 3.5, but in the 3rd edition DM's guide, DR 10/silver can be overcome with a +1 weapon. The same is true of, say the treant's DR 10/slashing. A +1 bludgeoning weapon does normal damage. Am I misinterprting the rules incorrectly, or have they changed for 3.5? Because if this is true, then demons and devils just got a lot easier to kill.

 

[rangerjohn]

Actually, the opposite is true. Unless you have the appropiate aligned weapon vs. a demon or devil in 3.5 you will have to subtract its DR up to 15. All a +5 sword will get you is a greater chance of hitting and +5 damage. A greater demon or devil would still subtract 15 points of damage. So for example a fighter with 20 str and +5 longsword would do a maximum of 3 hp barring a crit or appropiate feat like power attack.

 

[Staffan]

Im not sure if the rules have changed in 3.5, but in the 3rd edition DM's guide, DR 10/silver can be overcome with a +1 weapon. The same is true of, say the treant's DR 10/slashing. A +1 bludgeoning weapon does normal damage. Am I misinterprting the rules incorrectly, or have they changed for 3.5? Because if this is true, then demons and devils just got a lot easier to kill.

That was one of the first changes revealed about 3.5e, and one of the most heavily debated. In 3.5e, DR can be linked to the following things:

1. Damage type, like the skeleton's DR 5/blunt.
2. Magic or Epic weapons. Note that a +1 weapon will penetrate as well as a +5 weapon. I don't know if "epic" is defined as a +6 or better weapon or just a weapon with epic qualities.
3. Alignment. Creatures with alignment subtypes are considered to have those subtypes on their natural and wielded weapons.
4. Materials. The core rules only use cold iron, silver, and adamantine, and recommend against adding more to the list (though I could see one or two more as a world-specific thing).
5. None. This is for things like the Barbarian. It will be mighty rare on monsters.
   [/list=1]
   The rules also allow for combining these, both with "and" and "or" combinations. For example, a lemure will probably have "DR 5/silver or good" while a pit fiend will have "DR 15/silver good". The first means that you need a weapon that's either silver or good, wheras the latter means it has to be both silver and good.
   As you can see from my example, DR numbers are going down. The pit fiend had DR 25/+2 in 3.0, but will have 15/silver good in 3.5e.

 

[TrapperQ]

The lemure and dretch are meant to be the mainstay of the infernal armies.

The lemure has DR 5/good or silver & does 1d4 damage with its claws.

The dretch has DR 5/good or cold iron & does 1d6+1 damage with its claws.

So the lemure can't hurt the dretch without a weapon, which it doesn't have and is probably on the battlefield for cheerleader purposes from now on. On the other hand, if the dretch wants to do damage more often than 1 in 3 hits, it can swan into battle with it's bonus pay in a string bag and slaughter the lemures with impunity.

Methinks the infantry campaigns of the blood wars have become a little one sided.

 

[Spatzimaus]

The lemure has DR 5/good or silver & does 1d4 damage with its claws.

The dretch has DR 5/good or cold iron & does 1d6+1 damage with its claws.

Well, cold iron's probably a lot easier to find than silver is (since it's just iron worked in a special way), so that'd tend to balance things a bit. Sure, if you only ever used your natural weapons it'd be one-sided, but that's why they invented opposable thumbs... give that lemure a cold iron dagger and watch him go nuts.

 

[Madfox]

One dagger is still more expensive then no dagger

This is indeed one of the points that I do not like about the new DR rules. The thing is that it has more to do with monster design then the actual rules. If they had add 'or chaotic' or 'or lawful' to all fiendish DR (alignment dictating which) it would have made a lot more sense. I am seeing a small house rule I will add to the fiends of my campaigns

Side note - if I remember correctly elementals have gained a DR of 5/- (large) or 10/- (elder). As if elementals were not bad to face compared to there CR in the first place

 

[Fevil]

I agree with Madfox, Ill be adding on Lawful/Chaotic to the fiends DR in order to make the Blood War possible.

This is the only real objection I have to the new DR rules, I will however only use them with the MM creatures until such time as the rest are updated.