Dammit, Warlord, Warlock, Tiefling, and Dragonborn are growing on me.

Pbartender said:
Just to be absolutely clear about this...

;)

I need your address, so I can have my insurance company bill you for the rib I just broke while trying to breathe through the tempest of laughter that raged through my lungs.

...good show, old man.
 

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Mourn said:
I need your address, so I can have my insurance company bill you for the rib I just broke while trying to breathe through the tempest of laughter that raged through my lungs.

...good show, old man.

PO Box 707
Renton, WA 98057

:D
 

roguerouge said:
Not to poop the party here, but what, exactly, motivates a lizard? Cool as they may be in the board game functions of DnD I honestly have no idea what motivates them. Ever taken a look at the fluff for the Dragon Shaman? WotC has no idea what motivates dragon people either, as their description entirely boils down to the pursuit of power, whether you idealize a red dragon, a gold dragon, or a brass one.

Sell me on dragonborn having comprehensible motives and world view along with 1980s retro haircuts and you'll have me.

Perhaps it'll help if I give a little info on a desert-dwelling lizardfolk race I and a friend created for a campaign a while back. (They were originally a corrupt human empire that got transformed, but that's so many centuries in the past it makes no real difference.) I might use dragonborn for them, though the 'wings and breath weapon' feats won't make sense in that world.

They're oviparous, and the young aren't sapient until they hit puberty. Males and females can be told apart only by scent, and they're uninterested in sex when not in heat. When a female goes into heat, the locals select a male to be locked up with her until the deed is done; the female gets broody over the eggs at first, but loses interest when they hatch.

The young are trained (as in animals) to do useful work, not to pee on the rug, and so on. Around the age of 8 or 9, they start to babble and are taught to talk, then sent to school for a few years to learn the basics. After that, they are tested for intelligence and omens are cast; those who don't make the grade become slaves, others are assigned to jobs (the basic castes in order of esteem being roughly soldiers, farmers, artisans, scholars, ruler/commanders, and priests) based on their proclivities and the omens. One isn't fixed in a caste for life; if a farmer shows talent for writing he can be 'promoted' to scholar, for example; likewise rulers with antisocial tendencies can be 'demoted' to slaves. (It is assumed the omens were read improperly in such cases.)

The master/apprentice bond takes the place of family life for these guys; it is an intense and close relationship; the various castes are also organized into 'clans' based on schools of thought which also evoke intense loyalty.

They regard human creativity and versatility with a cool, aloof admiration they have no desire to really imitate; they think humans are crazy and sex-obsessed. (From their point of view, we're in heat *all the time*!) Their own culture tends toward valuing uniformity; innovation is slow and usually the work of a great master, typically the founder of a new clan/school of thought. (Nothing to say about other races, because we didn't use any of the D&D standard ones in that world, other than humans.)

Their justice is fair but very harsh. (This is due to historical and practical causes I needn't go into here. Suffice to say if it weren't harsh, things would get VERY BAD.) Being a foreign national, even an ambassador, does not exempt you - they'll sentence you to death for assault as readily as they would one of their own, and if it starts a war - well, humans are crazy anyway.
 

roguerouge said:
Okay. Tell me why you love lizardmen, Gloombunny. That's what I want to learn, maybe it will help me figure out the all the love for this set of creatures.

(In biology's taxonomy, what would this set of creatures be? A genus? an order? a family?)
I'm not sure I can really explain it. A lot of it is just visual style, I guess. (Though I only like certain renditions of lizardfolk. Oftentimes pictures of them just look kind of silly.) I like how alien they seem - lizards are just different from us in a very fundamental way that pointy-eared humans aren't. Even other animal-based humanoids don't really have that going for them... cats and hyenas and other mammals are, well, they're still mammals. You can empathize with them in a way that you really can't with lizards. (Or at least, I feel that I can. YMMV, of course.) I guess bug-type people have that too, but bugs are a little too overtly creepy and unpleasant. Lizards are alien, but not repulsive.

One of the things I really dislike about "classic" (i.e., ripped off from Tolkien) fantasy races is that just aren't very different from humans. They're taller or shorter, their ears are pointy or their beards are thicker, whatever. They live longer, maybe, but they never seem to behave much differently from humans despite that. I tend to feel like there's not much point to them... I mean, I can put a gruff, beer-swilling, economically-dependent-on-mining culture of humans in the mountains with no problems, so why bother with dwarves? Lizardfolk don't have that issue. Right from the start, they're distinctive in a way a human culture could never be.

Y'know, now that I think about it, if I were gonna GM a 4e game I might ban all non-human races except dragonborn and tieflings. I may be unusual in this respect. :)
 

Gloombunny said:
Y'know, now that I think about it, if I were gonna GM a 4e game I might ban all non-human races except dragonborn and tieflings. I may be unusual in this respect. :)
How about banning humans and demi-humans. And for PC races use Tieflings, Dragonborn, and replace everything else with races from the MM? At the least it will be interesting, and you can use the core PC races you dumped in the place of standard humanoid monsters.
 

HeavenShallBurn said:
How about banning humans and demi-humans. And for PC races use Tieflings, Dragonborn, and replace everything else with races from the MM? At the least it will be interesting, and you can use the core PC races you dumped in the place of standard humanoid monsters.
Er... no thanks. I have no interest in a setting where humans aren't the "main" race, nor in a slew of wacky monster races.

And I'm certainly not going to kick elves and dwarves out of my setting just to put them back in as antagonists. That doesn't make a lick of sense.
 

Gloombunny said:
Er... no thanks. I have no interest in a setting where humans aren't the "main" race, nor in a slew of wacky monster races.

And I'm certainly not going to kick elves and dwarves out of my setting just to put them back in as antagonists. That doesn't make a lick of sense.
No problem, it's not a style for everybody after all.
Just suggesting because as a short mini-campaign it can be entertaining. And in general my experience is that mixing things up every so often leaves a group more up-beat and interested. Which tends to carry through even after the game shifts back to a more normal tone.
 

The Shadow said:
They're oviparous, and the young aren't sapient until they hit puberty. Males and females can be told apart only by scent, and they're uninterested in sex when not in heat. When a female goes into heat, the locals select a male to be locked up with her until the deed is done; the female gets broody over the eggs at first, but loses interest when they hatch.

The young are trained (as in animals) to do useful work, not to pee on the rug, and so on. Around the age of 8 or 9, they start to babble and are taught to talk, then sent to school for a few years to learn the basics. After that, they are tested for intelligence and omens are cast; those who don't make the grade become slaves, others are assigned to jobs (the basic castes in order of esteem being roughly soldiers, farmers, artisans, scholars, ruler/commanders, and priests) based on their proclivities and the omens. One isn't fixed in a caste for life; if a farmer shows talent for writing he can be 'promoted' to scholar, for example; likewise rulers with antisocial tendencies can be 'demoted' to slaves. (It is assumed the omens were read improperly in such cases.)

The master/apprentice bond takes the place of family life for these guys; it is an intense and close relationship; the various castes are also organized into 'clans' based on schools of thought which also evoke intense loyalty.

They regard human creativity and versatility with a cool, aloof admiration they have no desire to really imitate; they think humans are crazy and sex-obsessed. (From their point of view, we're in heat *all the time*!) Their own culture tends toward valuing uniformity; innovation is slow and usually the work of a great master, typically the founder of a new clan/school of thought. (Nothing to say about other races, because we didn't use any of the D&D standard ones in that world, other than humans.)
Have you read the Worldwar books, by any chance?
 


Commonblade said:
Going off the ibecausemplied setting, this is the feeling I am getting from the races.

Dragonborn are motivated by a need to reclaim their past glory.

Elves are motivated by a need to preserve and cherish life around them.

Eladrin are motivated by a search for the secrets of the universe.

Dwarves are motivated by a need for defense of their homes and family.

Humans are motivated in making a future for themselves.

Halflings are motivated in making sure they survive.

Tieflings are motivated by a need for personal improvement.

Neat!

I had similar ideas about the PHB races in 3.5, actually: humans adventure for power (whether for good or ill); dwarves, for honor and gold; halflings, because of wanderlust; elves, to experience new things; half-orcs, because their blood makes them restless. (Never could come up with good, stereotypical motivations for half-elves and gnomes.)
 

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