Dancing Weapon attacks

[Charuvanth]

Can someone help me break this down? an 11th level fighter, with no strength bonus to keep things simple, has two weapons...a longsword and a dancing longsword. how many attacks does the fighter get using the dancing longsword? Just *one* extra attack (for a total of 4) at the BAB?

so...round 1) move, release dancing longsword as a standard action...round 2) quickdraw longsword, full attack action (+11 +6 +1 ....+11 for dancing longsword)

does the fact that it uses the BAB also mean that it doesn't get circumstance bonuses like a ranger would fighting a favored enemy?

also, does it attack on the round it's released?

From the SRD:

Dancing: As a standard action, a dancing weapon can be
loosed to attack on its own. It fights for 4 rounds using the base
attack bonus of the one who loosed it and then drops. While
dancing, it cannot make attacks of opportunity, and the person
who activated it is not considered armed with the weapon.
In all other respects, it is considered wielded or attended by
the creature for all maneuvers and effects that target items.
While dancing, it takes up the same space as the activating
character and can attack adjacent foes (weapons with reach
can attack opponents up to 10 feet away). The dancing weapon
accompanies the person who activated it everywhere, whether
she moves by physical or magical means. If the wielder who
loosed it has an unoccupied hand, she can grasp it while it is
attacking on its own as a free action; when so retrieved the
weapon can’t dance (attack on its own) again for 4 rounds.
Strong transmutation; CL 15th; Craft Magic Arms and
Armor, animate objects; Price +4 bonus.

 

[Camarath]

I am not sure about this but I think the weapons gets as many attacks as its BAB would normally allow and I assume that the weapon gain all the benefits it would gain if it was wielded the creature. I think the weapon gains iterative attacks because it is stated that "It fights for 4 rounds using the base attack bonus of the one who loosed it and then drops." and a high base attack bonus normally gains additional attacks (with manufactured weapons). I think the weapon gains the benefits it would gain if it was wielded by the creature because it states "In all other respects [other than it cannot make attacks of opportunity, and the person who activated it is not considered armed with the weapon], it is considered wielded or attended by the creature for all maneuvers and effects that target items." and I assume this applies for the normal benefits the weapon would gain if wield by the creature (even though I am not sure if these benefits "target" items or merely affect them).

Another interpetation is that the weapon attacks once per round using the BAB of the creature and gains none of the benefits it would gain if it was wielded the creature but is still considered to be wielded/attended for effects which specifically target items.

 

[GodPhoenix]

Neat, this is relevant to our session last weekend. Has the Sage spoken to this...or has custserv anywhere? Or andy...or any of the usual suspects?

This was our setup (not my character, but I'll try to get it right) A 20th level ranger with a dancing scythe, a longsword, and a dagger. Two weapon fighting and improved two weapon fighting. After releasing the scythe he said he got: 4 attacks with his main hand, 3 attacks with his off hand, followed by 4 dancing attacks with the scythe.

So 11 attacks...and he was doing 400-500 points of damage a round(not to mention we were fighting against a hated species and he was power attacking)...can that be right?

I'm inclined to think that the "uses the BAB" bit from the entry implies that the weapon gets one attack at +20.

Can anyone quote me something from the SRD/Sage/Andy or whatever?

Thanks!

 

[Darklone]

Assuming he had Greater TWF as well, it sounds right. Not too bad for a level 20 dude.

 

[kpdezend]

Assuming he had Greater TWF as well, it sounds right. Not too bad for a level 20 dude.

Hey there.... it is I, the one that played this dastardly Ranger... from how I read the rules (and have some members of our group who agree) is that attacking in such a manner does yield the 11 attacks a round... and the 1.5x strength bonus for a (dancing) two-handed weapon. However, as GodPheonix mentioned, it was a hated species (my Ranger is actually 21st level with Bane of Enemies feat from the Epic Level handbook), and the hated species had an AC of 20 or less... and the weapons were all of hunting... double the hated species damage, which came to be +8 damage per hit for the hated species +7 strength (+10 on the scythe), +8/16 Power Attack...

I talked with our DM about it afterwards, and even though I feel like this is how the rules word it, it is not fun when one character is more than doubling the damage of the rest of the party.... (well, OK, so it was a *little* fun) so it looks like we are going to at the very least house rule that it is only one attack.

What I did not use was the animated shield of Bashing +3/+3 (+5 because of the Bane of Enemies feat), for another 5 attacks...

In any case, further discussion on this point would be nice. One other thing to ask (and maybe this should be it's own thread), how do you guys keep track of high-level combat when the attacks by the character get so complicated? Imagine swathing into a swarm of enemies (of various hated species or not) with weapons of different plusses, many attacks... cleave... spellcasters altering various variables... boots of haste every now and then... yadda yadda yadda...

thoughts?

- Trathor -

 

[kpdezend]

Can someone help me break this down? an 11th level fighter, with no strength bonus to keep things simple, has two weapons...a longsword and a dancing longsword. how many attacks does the fighter get using the dancing longsword? Just *one* extra attack (for a total of 4) at the BAB?

Let us know how your group rules this one.

- Trathor -

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

My judgment would be:

The weapon gets the full attacks allowed by the character's BAB (note "using the base attack bonus", vice "at the highest attack bonus"). So three attacks, +11/+6/+1, as a full attack (modified by the weapon's enhancement bonus, and any other weapon abilities).

However, since only BAB is specified, no other enhancements would apply. No bonus from the character's strength (certainly not 1.5x), no favored enemy, etc, unless it were one of the weapon's enhancements.

 

[GodPhoenix]

I dunno...that seems a little over powered to me even if it doesn't include bonuses. A +4 equiv to basically add another fighter? Even if said PC moves and attacks once the dancing weapon would still get a full attack action...seems a little munchkin (and broken) to me.

 

[Scion]

Of course at the character had to give up attacks just to release it and then draw his other weapons, plus at levels where iterative attacks are happening even the first hit with few bonuses will have a hard time with at least some creatures while the next ones are just there in case of natural 20's.

So standard action to release, you have to draw your other weapons, it only dances for 4 rounds, it has a pretty high cost, is missing some severe bonuses to hit and for damage.. all in all doesnt seem too bad In fact, without iterative attacks it almost doesnt seem worth it.

 

[Stalker0]

I'd go with the spiritual weapon ruling on this one. You get the multiple attacks, but none of the str bonuses or circumstance bonuses or anything like that.