Spoilers Daredevil: Born Again season two discussion

[Stalker0]

The serious question wasn't answered tho... does Bullseye get to enjoy his milkshake?

Spoiler

He did. Even complimented the waitress on it.

 

[Tonguez]

There is a nod to that though. With the CIA and governor, it’s showing that as powerful as Fisk looks in New York, he is dancing uncomfortably in larger waters.

And frankly we have seen this before in real life. There is always a breaking point where people are gladly willing to throw away freedom for security and “to get the trains running on time”. If a failed artist could do it in Germany, a criminal mastermind could do it here

A criminal mastermind did do it there - "Diamond Jim" Fisk was a real NYC Robber Baron attached to Tammany Hall he and Al Capone are the inspiration behind Wilson Fisk although neither ran for mayor they did finance mayoral campaigns and are the reason lots of anticorruption laws were passed.

 

[trappedslider]

A criminal mastermind did do it there - "Diamond Jim" Fisk was a real NYC Robber Baron attached to Tammany Hall he and Al Capone are the inspiration behind Wilson Fisk although neither ran for mayor they did finance mayoral campaigns and are the reason lots of anticorruption laws were passed.

once there was a corrupt politician in the 1920's named John A. McCarthy; but he was known as Fishhooks McCarthy. He lived and worked on the Lower East Side of New York City. Being a devout man every morning he stopped at a little Catholic Church, St. James Church on Olive Street, to pray. His same prayer each day was this: “O Lord, give me health and strength. We’ll steal the rest.”

 

[pukunui]

Just watch ep 4. I really wish that, just for once, a witness would actually survive. Fisk’s ability to kill all the witnesses against him is seriously ragebaiting me! (And I’m talking about all through the earlier Daredevil series, not just this one.)

That said, Bullseye managed to take a major piece off the board. Things are going to get wild from here on out.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Just watch ep 4. I really wish that, just for once, a witness would actually survive. Fisk’s ability to kill all the witnesses against him is seriously ragebaiting me! (And I’m talking about all through the earlier Daredevil series, not just this one.)

That said, Bullseye managed to take a major piece off the board. Things are going to get wild from here on out.

That's always been Bullseye's narrative role, among other things.

 

[Omand]

Looking back at ep 4, they did a good job foreshadowing Vanessa's "fall" ( can we say for sure she is dead yet?). Fisk's own warnings, of course, because he knew he was baiting Bullseye but did not let her in on it, but also the talk with the Governor about reigning in Fisk's worst impulses. And, of course, the white dress at the boxing event itself.

It was subtle though, so I did not expect it until it actually happened. But then everything just snapped into focus.

Now, will Fisk blame himself, blame Bullseye, blame Daredevil? All of the above?

I agree on the point above about Fisk managing to kill off all the witnesses against him. It is annoying. The US Marshals are supposed to have the best Witsec program out there. Really?

With all that said, I think as we hit the end of ep 4 that Fisk has hit his overreach point. Poking the CIA (even if Charles deserved it), killing off witnesses in US Marshal protection, losing control at the boxing match and paralyzing (killing?) his opponent. All signal hubris before the fall I suspect.

Cheers

 

[pukunui]

Looking back at ep 4, they did a good job foreshadowing Vanessa's "fall" ( can we say for sure she is dead yet?).

She lost a lot of blood, and the crystal was in her temple, so chances are slim. Fisk survived a bullet to the face with some high-tech medical stuff, so he might be able to save her, but I feel like the whole point was to kill her off to send Fisk over the edge. They fridged Vanessa.

With all that said, I think as we hit the end of ep 4 that Fisk has hit his overreach point. Poking the CIA (even if Charles deserved it), killing off witnesses in US Marshal protection, losing control at the boxing match and paralyzing (killing?) his opponent. All signal hubris before the fall I suspect.

I just hope they don’t drag his fall out into a third season.

 

[Omand]

She lost a lot of blood, and the crystal was in her temple, so chances are slim. Fisk survived a bullet to the face with some high-tech medical stuff, so he might be able to save her, but I feel like the whole point was to kill her off to send Fisk over the edge. They fridged Vanessa.


I just hope they don’t drag his fall out into a third season.

Two things,

1) I agree, I do think she will be dead when the next episode opens. But since we saw her still breathing (gasping and apparently losing consciousness, but still gasping) at the last shot I did not want to pre-judge. With that said, not sure we can 100% call it a fridging (at least as I understand the term).

As I understand, in a classic fridge scenario a female character suffers or dies to provide development for a male character. Yes, Fisk will "develop" due to this event. But we have to keep in mind that Vanessa was the one who set this entire chain of events in motion. She went to visit Bullseye in prison and hired him to kill off Fisk. We don't have 100% proof, but I suspect she somehow aided in his escape. Now, she subsequently reconciled with Fisk after setting that up, but very notably did not tell him about her dealings with Bullseye, even after lecturing Fisk about keeping secrets from her. So I don't think this is an open and shut fridging.

2) Season Three is written and in pre-production according to the video podcast that accompanies each episode. Fisk is in the season according to conversations. That is to be expected, however. It will be interesting to see what position in the narrative (and in NYC) he occupies by then.

 

[chuckdee]

She lost a lot of blood, and the crystal was in her temple, so chances are slim. Fisk survived a bullet to the face with some high-tech medical stuff, so he might be able to save her, but I feel like the whole point was to kill her off to send Fisk over the edge. They fridged Vanessa.

This is one of the problems I have with modern interpretations of the word. Any death of a loved one will and should cause development in those that are left behind. The word that is left out is 'only'. This was not the 'only' reason for her fall. And she had more than a hand in it. Even if she dies, she was not fridged.

 

[Ryujin]

This is one of the problems I have with modern interpretations of the word. Any death of a loved one will and should cause development in those that are left behind. The word that is left out is 'only'. This was not the 'only' reason for her fall. And she had more than a hand in it. Even if she dies, she was not fridged.

Yeah, it typically refers to a female character who seems to only exist so she can die, to motivate a main character. Vanessa drives the story a lot more than merely that.