Spelljammer Dark Sun confirmed? Or, the mysterious case of the dissappearing Spelljammer article...

[Medic]

define what you mean?

Slavery is not a monolithic institution that was practiced one way, but an array of different systems that fall under a large umbrella. Even though the practice of chattel slavery (the system which most of us understand as "slavery" nowadays) has diminished, there is still a glut of the human population that is compelled to labor by force or coercion using systems such as conscription, prison labor, child labor, debt bondage, and forced marriage.

It is a complex and widespread issue that some people may be uncomfortable with confronting.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Do you have a smart phone or any other electronic device? It was built by workers in foreign countries who are effectively enslaved. Do you have clothes made in foreign countries? They were made by workers who are effectively enslaved. The people who pick your produce can barely afford to buy the same produce they pick from the grocery store. Do you have any authentic jewelry? Most diamonds that come from Africa are referred to as Blood Diamonds because the workers mining those gemstones are effectively enslaved. The diamonds that don't come from enslaved workers are wildly more expensive. Repeat that for basically every aspect of modern life. That's how there's a whole lot of enslaved people today and how everyone in modern society directly benefits from it. Your cheap prices are the direct result of someone else being enslaved.

effectively and enslaved are different things as fundamental one is the norm of working conditions of humanity for the entire past and like the rest of time, the other is an organised institution.

Slavery is not a monolithic institution that was practiced one way, but an array of different systems that fall under a large umbrella. Even though the practice of chattel slavery (the system which most of us understand as "slavery" nowadays) has diminished, there is still a glut of the human population that is compelled to labor by force or coercion using systems such as conscription, prison labor, child labor, debt bondage, and forced marriage.

It is a complex and widespread issue that some people may be uncomfortable with confronting.

okay and that in any way makes people react to pure revulsion to having evil slavers as bad guys how?
name one thing that is bad guy material that is not rooted in something about oppression a game with no foe is not something dnd was ever built to do nor can such a game exist.

 

[Umbran]

Ancient slavery is more like credit-card debt or student loans.

People are doing labor as a method of paying off a financial debt.

Mod Note:
So, unfortunately, this comes off like slavery apologia. "See! Slavery wasn't that bad!"

Also, slavery has been a global phenomenon, over the breadth of human history and pre-history. It is and was NOT always like paying off financial debt. In making this generalization, you are sweeping the bondage of thousands to millions of people under the rug as no big thing.

Please do not do that again on this site.

 

[overgeeked]

effectively and enslaved are different things as fundamental one is the norm of working conditions of humanity for the entire past and like the rest of time, the other is an organised institution.


okay and that in any way makes people react to pure revulsion to having evil slavers as bad guys how?
name one thing that is bad guy material that is not rooted in something about oppression a game with no foe is not something dnd was ever built to do nor can such a game exist.

Maybe try looking into these things before dismissing them out of hand. What you dismiss as “normal working conditions” you would likely denounce as enslavement if you had to suffer through it yourself.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Maybe try looking into these things before dismissing them out of hand. What you dismiss as “normal working conditions” you would likely denounce as enslavement if you had to suffer through it yourself.

you seem to suggest I think it is justified, I do not believe it is right but I am sufficiently old to know nothing can be done about it, it is like hating a forest fire in California they are normal, horrible but you can't stop them or do much about them.
I am perfectly aware of the horrors of this world but why fight something that can't be beaten?

but anyway that does not change the point, why is it unacceptable to depict slavery in an evil manner we are running out of things that let us show someone as a foe?

 

[overgeeked]

you seem to suggest I think it is justified, I do not believe it is right but I am sufficiently old to know nothing can be done about it, it is like hating a forest fire in California they are normal, horrible but you can't stop them or do much about them.

People stop fighting and give up. That’s not the same as an unbeatable problem.

I am perfectly aware of the horrors of this world but why fight something that can't be beaten?

That people assume it’s unbeatable and don’t bother fighting for what’s right is precisely what keeps it around.

And why fight even if it were truly unbeatable? Because it’s the right thing to do.

but anyway that does not change the point, why is it unacceptable to depict slavery in an evil manner we are running out of things that let us show someone as a foe?

I never said it was unacceptable. I think the opposite is true. It should be depicted honestly and in all its horror or not at all. That’s separate from whether WotC and Hasbro have any interest in doing so.

 

[Parmandur]

That’s separate from whether WotC and Hasbro have an

To steer things towards Dark
Sun...I think WotC really, really doesn’t have a good interest in going there, on a commercial level. They can't do the topic justice and market to 12 year olds at the same time.

 

[Shardstone]

To steer things towards Dark
Sun...I think WotC really, really doesn’t have a good interest in going there, on a commercial level. They can't do the topic justice and market to 12 year olds at the same time.

Ravenloft.

 

[Parmandur]

Ravenloft.

I would say that proves my point. I'm not saying thst the topic is utterly verboten, but they aren't going to dig into it either.

 

[Mind of tempest]

To steer things towards Dark
Sun...I think WotC really, really doesn’t have a good interest in going there, on a commercial level. They can't do the topic justice and market to 12 year olds at the same time.

my problem is we need evil for this game to function, (this game is made for us to kill evil losers)that we can depict if we lose cultist we will have nothing left to fight.