D&D 4E Dark Sun Conversion to 4E

[dangerous jack]

I wouldn't think it would matter most of the time, unless the vegetation is thick enough to constitute difficult terrain. In which case you just erase whatever marker you're using to indicate "difficult terrain."

I hadn't even thought of the added benefit to defiling of removing some difficult terrain. Note for the future: could a defiler just take actions to remove difficult terrain? e.g. A defiler in the walking through the jungle, creating a path of ash as he walked.

But I was thinking more about whether they'd be able to defile in the same location again and again, even long after the zone around them was reduced to ash. I can't remember whether the original 2E rules had anything to say about this.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Some good ideas in this thread, but overall I'm not a fan. I think it's a mistake to try and include every 4E element into Dark Sun. It's a different setting. Let it be true to itself. The setting descrbed by the OP isn't Dark Sun to me, just "D&D in the desert." It could be anywhere.

Things I like:

• Preservers are the default; Defilers get kewl powerz. I'd like to assume that all PCs will be Preservers, so it's just easier this way. It also explains why so many of the weak-willed succumb. I like that Defiling could be at-will power all Wizards possess.
• Using the Half-Elf racial power as a template for Psionics. Until we get the "real" rules, I like it. Since it's so open-ended it may require a little DM policing to prevent "broken combos", but I feel I'm up to that job.
• Druid-Pact and King-Pact Warlocks. Although final judgment must wait until I see the full Warlock rules, this sounds good.
• Halflings default as monsters. Given their proclivities in Dark Sun, they really shouldn't be PCs very often.

I don't like trying to include all the races "as is" or all of the classes (no Paladins!). That just isn't Dark Sun to me. I want Muls and Dray, elves that are 7 feet tall and can out-run the wind, Bards that are master poisoners, etc. All of these things will have to be written up into a 4E statblock, but that's fine with me. (I might leave out Thri-Kreen and Half-Giants as PC races though - there'd be a real tension between making them both balanced and "true to the spirit" of the books).

On the topic of Templars, I recall them as standing behind a line of hulking Half-Giants; the big guys would be the ones getting their hands dirty. The Templar could conceivably be cast as a Leader (Cleric) or Striker (Warlock), and I'd probably be happy with either. But they aren't Defenders.

One thing you absolutely , no-replacements-accepted, must do in any Dark Sun conversion is create a Sorcerer King and an Avengion Epic Destiny. The ED rules fit perfectly for that. Whether you would require multi-classing or not really depends on how multiclassing works in 4E. It may make sense, it may not (it made no sense at all in 3E). As it stands now I assume that the Sorcerer Kings are Epic Wizard-Defilers (levels 21-24) and the Dragon is the sole 30th level Epic Wizard.

 

[breschau]

I'm hoping that thri-kreen will be in the Forgotten Realms book, if not the MM. If there are no PC rules, it shouldn't be too hard to create them.

I'm down with Ogres as Half-Giants, it seems simple and elegant.

I wouldn't want a Sorcerer King epic destiny, but rather a dragon epic destiny. More than the kings could become dragons, but all that access to resources sure helped with the rituals.

I can't see templars as warlocks. They were healers, and the closest quick fix would be clerics who worship and gain power from their king. Just because another class has a pact system, doesn't mean templars should be that class, especially when it contradicts all the source material. At the very least templars were leaders, not strikers.

 

[Spatula]

Re: Preservers/Defilers:

The classes are (in theory) balanced out of the gate. Arcane users suffer a heavy social stigma on Athas. Saddle them with mechanical penalties too (feat taxes, etc.), and no one will play one, which presumably isn't the aim. That's why the "normal" mage should be the baseline for preservers.

Defiling should be more powerful but it has its own drawbacks. It's impossible to hide, and wizards are killed on sight in most population centers. It could use an addiction-like system to push people into choosing one side or the other - i.e. fence-sitting shouldn't be easy, because you are getting the best of both worlds with it (more power when you can afford to cut loose, and subtlety when needed). Of course, the social consequences attached to defilers could also keep some reluctant preservers in line.

But I was thinking more about whether they'd be able to defile in the same location again and again, even long after the zone around them was reduced to ash. I can't remember whether the original 2E rules had anything to say about this.

It did, the zone of destruction widens as the defiler continues to cast spells.

 

[kennew142]

What about shifting dailies to encounter powers, encounter powers to at-wills - or vice versa (depending whether you want to penalize preservers or empower defilers). Would represent that difference pretty well - preserves would cast their spells less often, because they don't get as much energy as defilers.

Cheers, LT.

A preserver wizard having no at-will powers (they've all become encounter powers) would really suck. On the other hand, allowing defilers to cast encounter powers at will and daily powers per encounter would really make them powerful.

I would go with flavor. Defilers defile and preservers do not. Defilers are obvious, get noticed and are hunted by just about everyone.

If a mechanical difference is necessary, I would allow defilers to take feats to get bonuses on spell attacks, spell damage and/or effects (+1 burst/blast). Allow defilers to build up their power over time in ways that preservers can't. If it requires taking a feat then presumably preservers would be improving in other areas, just not in the same way that defilers can.

Since we haven't seen the rules yet, we don't know if any of these house rules would work in 4e.

I would be disinclined to include anything new to the setting that didn't really fit my notion of what the setting is. No tieflings (no real infernals in DS) and no paladins (no struggle between supernatural forces of good and evil). Dragonborn are a good replacement for Dray.

I like the templars as warlocks. I also like the elemental clerics. They draw power from the elements, not from gods.

I would prefer to keep as much of the original flavor as possible, changing only what needs to be changed to encompass the new edition. YMMV.

 

[kennew142]

It did, the zone of destruction widens as the defiler continues to cast spells.

The greater area with each successive casting was likened to picking at a scab. The damage was worse than the original wound.

 

[Raduin711]

personally, I would prefer dragonborn taking the place of Pterrans, rather than half-giants.

 

[ve4grm]

If I might suggest a solution for defiling? Every Wizard gets the following ability:

Defile - Wizard Utility 1
At-Will * Arcane
Free Action - Personal
Effect: The next spell you cast gets a +2 on the attack roll, and a +2 on damage.
Additionally, all plant life within 2 squares of you is destroyed.
Until you save, every time you cast a spell, the plant life within 2 squares is destroyed again, with no benefit gained.

(If you wanted to be evil, you could require that the caster move if no plant life exists and they haven't saved, or the spell fizzles. I would at least require that they be in a natural environment with vegetation around.)

 

[VannATLC]

I don't like any of the suggestion for wizard, so far.
The rest of it is quite good.


Preservers were not common, it wasn't easy, and that extra life force had to come from somewhere. Defilers are the default wizards, and they are *hated*.

They shouldn't recieve extra power, preservers should be nerfed, or pay from their own HP pools.

Wizards are rare in DS, are they not? (I've read books, played the PC Game, but never a DND version)

The choice to play a wizard remains to the players, but there is an OC to pay.

 

[Graf]

I think all the talk of nerfing wizards is silly.

A feat to be a preserver is about right. Defiling is easier, which makes it default. With the short-cuts taken you can learn another feat.

Working in the Dragonborn and Teiflings as DB and Teiflings makes the most sense to me. I'd drop or background most of the other races. DS had a lot of races that weren't tremendously interesting to me.
Hardcore DS people will disagree of course.

Defiler Mastery also intuitively works for me. Your spells "stick" more often. That makes sense.

I like the psionics as utility items suggestion as well. It helps "hide" magic items (keeping the "half-naked and using a stone club" aspect of Dark Sun) without wrecking game balance. Instead of getting boots of springing and striding you have a psionic ability that does the same thing.
Having the half-elf racial thing act as psionics would also be interesting.

I was onboard with warlocks as templars. It makes a lot of sense. With healing surges (and a martial healer cahracter) and the rest of it you don't need clerics anymore.
(And elemental clerics were silly).

Having said that the image of the Dragon-as-god-granting-spells was always interesting.

If you're desperate for a psion you could probably mock one up using warlocks. Or wizard if you can get enough different abilities that look like charm effects (illusions instead of direct controller powers...)