Dark Sun in Dungeon #110

[Katowice]

Paizo has posted a cover image of Dungeon #110, their Dark Sun themed issue:

http://www.paizo.com/image/product/magazine_issue/dungeon/110/cover_500.jpg

 

[Davelozzi]

Cool. I'm looking forward to this.

 

[Mach2.5]

Gotta admit, with a wicked looking villainess like that, I'm interested. I hoping for the best with this, but expecting the worst. Likely the update will fall somewhere in the middle of that.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

Gotta admit, with a wicked looking villainess like that, I'm interested. I hoping for the best with this, but expecting the worst. Likely the update will fall somewhere in the middle of that.

At least we're getting something!

Maybe this will be a trend for other out-of-print campaign worlds?

We can hope.

 

[Mach2.5]

Well, they did it once already with Spelljammer. It sucked. Badly.

I've read a lot of David Noonan's stuff though (he's all over both Dragon and Dungeon mags, with some 30 odd credits in other WOTC books) and I like most of it. I'm sure he'll do a respectable job with it. I don't think he'll take it in the direction that alot of people are wanting though (its almost certain that it will not be a 'purist' approach, i.e. a direct conversion of the rules from 2e to 3.5 that so many people seem to be clamoring for). Its likely going to be different. But different in a good way or not is subjective.

 

[Katowice]

Hey! I liked the Spelljammer mini-campaign. To each his own I guess. Dave Noonan did both versions of the Pulp Heroes mini-game, which is probably one of my all time favorites in Polyhedron so far. That said, I'm sure Dark Sun 3.5 will not make everyone happy.

Well, they did it once already with Spelljammer. It sucked. Badly.

I've read a lot of David Noonan's stuff though (he's all over both Dragon and Dungeon mags, with some 30 odd credits in other WOTC books) and I like most of it. I'm sure he'll do a respectable job with it. I don't think he'll take it in the direction that alot of people are wanting though (its almost certain that it will not be a 'purist' approach, i.e. a direct conversion of the rules from 2e to 3.5 that so many people seem to be clamoring for). Its likely going to be different. But different in a good way or not is subjective.

 

[Alzrius]

Well, they did it once already with Spelljammer. It sucked. Badly.

It's odd that you say this, but then below mention that you think he'll do a respectable job by using the same techniques that made the SJ mini-game suck so horribly.

For the record, as a fan of SJ, I was far less than satisfied with how that mini-game turned out. For me, the problem was that it neither tried to capture the original feel of SJ, nor tried to fix any of the problems it had. Rather, it simply tried to pick up the "core concepts" and use them without everything else in the campaign...given that what we wanted was the campaign itself, it's a small wonder that so many people were left cold by it.

I've read a lot of David Noonan's stuff though (he's all over both Dragon and Dungeon mags, with some 30 odd credits in other WOTC books) and I like most of it. I'm sure he'll do a respectable job with it. I don't think he'll take it in the direction that alot of people are wanting though (its almost certain that it will not be a 'purist' approach, i.e. a direct conversion of the rules from 2e to 3.5 that so many people seem to be clamoring for). Its likely going to be different. But different in a good way or not is subjective.

I want to believe this is going to be good...I really do. The fact that it's getting a lot more than just a little mini-game section in Poly seems like a good indicator to me. What worries me is that Dave Noonan already seems to be leaning away from just converting the campaign from 2E to 3.5E (which, as you said, is what people want). Just consider is Dark Sun article in Dragon #315. It starts out by saying "What follows is an interpretation of the defiler magic [...] If you're already playing a Dark Sun game, this new system might represent too radical a change for an ongoing game."

I see a bad sun rising...

 

[Ranger REG]

I like the Spelljammer mini-game. It didn't cramp me with craps like "phlogiston" and "crystal sphere." It's basically ships in space, with its own self-contained setting. It is taking what is absolutely best about Spelljammer (fantasy-style spacefaring ships) and reviving it in a better form, one that can stand on its own, not some transit between settings.

But I wish it had an expanded "crossover" treatment as Dark Sun will have next month (if not already in FLGS or mailboxes).

 

[qstor]

I agree with Ranger that Spelljammer should have had an expanded cross over. I wasn't much of a Dark Sun fan in the 2e days but I'm looking forward to the articles in Dungeon and Dragon.

Mike

 

[Alzrius]

I like the Spelljammer mini-game. It didn't cramp me with craps like "phlogiston" and "crystal sphere." It's basically ships in space, with its own self-contained setting. It is taking what is absolutely best about Spelljammer (fantasy-style spacefaring ships) and reviving it in a better form, one that can stand on its own, not some transit between settings.

It's true that the original SJ could have had the focus of the campaign set better (the way I see it, SJ made all the stumbles that Planescape avoided). But the mini-game honestly wasn't even really worth the paper it was printed on. It would have worked better if they hadn't even called it Spelljammer.

Bringing back an old campaign is meant to appeal to fans of the original...it's giving them back something they haven't seen in a while. Having the mini-game of SJ lose almost all the trappings of SJ defeats the purpose. Updating an old campaign should (IMHO) either A) just be a rules (and maybe timeline) update, so that the old mechanics can be used with the new edition's rules, or B) be an add-on to the setting to be used within the system (this one assumes people are playing the game despite lack of a setting update); usualy in the form of fleshing out a previously vague area/race/etc.

Having the SJ mini-game take out phlogiston, crystal spheres, the Rock of Bral, all the various races/monsters (giff, dracons, scro, arcane, etc), the setting information (First & Second Unhuman Wars, Imperial Elven Navy, etc) and still calling it SJ is laughable...it'd be like if the new DS conversion was just set in a desert, with no muls, no defilers/preservers, no elemental clerics, and no dragon-kings, and still trying to call it Dark Sun...it's just not the same.

But I wish it had an expanded "crossover" treatment as Dark Sun will have next month (if not already in FLGS or mailboxes).

I agree, but only because that would have made it more likely that the original setting wouldn't have been bastardized so badly.