Dark Sun: Weapon Breakage Rules, Can They Be Better?

[ourchair]

I'm pretty sure there was another thread about this but now I can't find it.

Anyway, this is with regards to the weapon breakage rules introduced by Dark Sun. Does anyone else think they're kind of lame and could be better?

Basically: on a critical fail, you can choose to re-roll and break your weapon. Let's be honest. How many players are going to CHOOSE to take that breakage re-roll unless they are in mortal MORTAL danger?

I think that this could be better. Any suggestions? Perhaps the weapon can be marked with 'break-dots' For every critical fail, you fill it in and on the third fail, the weapon breaks.

I dunno, what do you think?

 

[Dice4Hire]

I am not a fan of the rules.

If you use the Inherent bonuses, just carry 2-3 weapons around and you are set. If you roll a 1 on your big daily, reroll. If you roll it elsewhere, why bother?

I am not sure how I would like to do it, actually, but I am not a fan of the rules they have here. I'd rather a 1 always miss, and the breakage have something to do with a critical, the top of the scale, not the bottom. Like maybe a couple extra dice on a crit, but the weapon breaks, or some such, or a save on a crit.

But I see the rule as trying to be fun, and cinematic, so I can live with it.

 

[Insight]

I am not a fan of the rules.

If you use the Inherent bonuses, just carry 2-3 weapons around and you are set. If you roll a 1 on your big daily, reroll. If you roll it elsewhere, why bother?

I am not sure how I would like to do it, actually, but I am not a fan of the rules they have here. I'd rather a 1 always miss, and the breakage have something to do with a critical, the top of the scale, not the bottom. Like maybe a couple extra dice on a crit, but the weapon breaks, or some such, or a save on a crit.

But I see the rule as trying to be fun, and cinematic, so I can live with it.

I agree. Rolling a 1 is already a downer. Then, you decide to break your weapon and what if you still miss? Now, you have a wasted daily and no weapon. Double downer. It's more in the 4E spirit to have it be something good happens - a crit - and then you have the option to do more damage but it breaks your weapon. More of a favorable choice and I think it would engender more fun and less dice-throwing.

 

[Camelot]

I think the rule should only matter much at low levels, when magic weapons are scarse. I think it's silly that a magic weapon can break, even if it is made of poor material. Magic weapons should ignore that rule. So, you should only worry about it at low levels, when you don't have magic items, or if you are an implement user who is only using a weapon because you're in a dire straight, or your DM is nasty and has taken away your magic items at a higher level.

If I had to use a weapon breakage rule, though, I do like yours, Ourchair.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think the old ADnD rule was that a stone weapon breaks, if you did maximum damage on a crit or something like that.

I think the rules as they are are the martial equivalent of defiling: turn a miss into a crit in exchange for damage to the weapon/allies...

I don´t think that changing the rule to: You may roll again on a crit and if you hit, you deal [W] Extra damage, otherwise you break your weapon would break the game.

 

[keterys]

It's another chance to land a very important daily or encounter power, and depending on the rules you're using it might have very little cost outside of a minor action taken afterwards.

Wouldn't surprise me if it sees a reasonable amount of use, relative to how many times people actually roll 1s on the appropriate powers (not often).

 

[Gradine]

In a world with no magic weapons (ie, inherent bonuses), there is little reason for characters to not hold on to multiple weapons, or, better yet, break your weapon killing an enemy and then taking the enemy's weapon.

Obviously the more weapon types you are proficient with (and your enemies seem to carry) the better this rule becomes for you.

I don't have any problems with it.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I don't much care for that rule, since it makes weapons that might break /better/, than regular ones. You can use the weapon and never take a re-roll on a 1, and it's exactly like a normal non-breaking weapon, or you can take a re-roll once in a while.

Weapons that might break should be inferior. Going with a similar mechanic:


When you roll a 20, you can either inflict crit damage, and your weapon breaks, or, you can take a re-roll and keep your weapon intact. The re-roll can be a crit, in which case you do crit damage without breaking your weapon.

The idea being if you fight 'cautiously' to keep from breaking your weapon, you won't get in so many really good hits.

Or, very simply: when you roll a 1 your weapon breaks. If you use a power that lets you re-roll the 1, the weapon only breaks if you roll another 1. Or, you could make it a little less certain: When you roll a 1 on an attack vs AC, roll again vs the target's FORT, if the second roll would be a miss, the weapon breaks, otherwise there is no effect.


Here's another:

When you acquire a breakable weapon pick or randomly generate a number between 2 and 20. Subsequently, when you roll that number and hit, you choose to either have the weapon break, or turn the hit into a miss. If the number is 20, you choose to have the weapon break, or turn the crit into an ordinary hit. If you roll the number and miss, the weapon breaks.
Alternately, you could have a different-color 'breaker die' that you roll at the same time as your attack die, if both come up the same number, the weapon breaks.
Alter-alternately, you could re-roll the attack die and the weapon doesn't break if it comes up /lower/ than the breaker die.



With either of those, or with the original, re-roll powers are handy. If you miss with the re-roll granted/imposed by a weapon-breaking rule, you can use the re-roll power.



Another thing they could have done was simply add some powers that break weapons - to monsters, and to some of the classes, or as a universeally available combat action, like a grab.

 

[Henry]

Quite frankly, I like it, for a number of reasons:

1) It encourages players to carry at least two non-metal weapons if they are nonmagical - who WOULDN't want a free attack re-roll for the cost of a couple pounds of carry capacity and a few measly ceramic coins? In fact, some people might forego magic weapon acquisition entirely just to have a half-dozen weapons on his person Mad-Max-Style instead.

2) In the case of magical weaponry, it keeps you from losing that +1 bone battle axe carved from a rare fire-breathing mekillot you just quested for three sessions to get, because you rolled crappy on your dice. You just pay for it by not getting the re-roll.

3) In the old rules, you were going to see a weapon break on average every 120 to 200 ATTACKS or so, given the math. (roll max on damage, then 1 on a d20?) You might not see one break for five or six sessions or more. On the other hand, if it can break on every 20th attack roll someone makes, and it's in the hands of the roller, then you're actually more likely, not less, to see one break. I just think it underestimates the value of rerolling to think a player wouldn't ever choose it.

4) The presumption is going to be that magic weapons are going to be kind of rare. Your first "magic" weapon is probably going to be a metal weapon instead of the stone or bone ones you've been carrying around until then. That metal weapon will even have a chance to NOT break even if you take the re-roll (1 in 4 chance, if I recally from DDXP rumors?)

In summary, I think it's a good thing to leave an effect that tempting in the hands of the players, because they are more likely to take you up on it than just assigning some rate of random failure.

 

[hvg3akaek]

I still think it encourages people not to use the rule. Auto-breaking of a weapon does not make up for a possible reroll.

All my players who I have talked about it with believe they will not use the rule as written.


I would prefer something that both encourages people to risk the weapon breaking, and results in more weapons breaking. This, to me, feels more in the style of Dark Sun.

A simple rule would be to have the reroll act as a save for the weapon: 9 or less, it breaks.

Another would be to offer to add a +1 to the initial roll, with the provision that it would break. Better yet, allow this to turn a 19 into an auto crit. That way, players can ensure they hit, or turn a hit to a crit, and loose their weapon in the process! That sounds Athas-like, and something that could be fun!