Darkwater RPG design

[Nellisir]

I've been looking over alot of retro-clone and d20 derived free games recently (OSRIC, BFRPG, Labyrinth Lord, Mazes & Monsters, Microlite d20, E6, Gods & Monsters), and naturally started thinking about creating my own Frankenstein's monster ruleset. Striking a balance between complexity/customization and simplicity/ease of play is...tricky.

Levels are broadly grouped into tiers (see 4e and Raven Crowking's new ruleset): 1-5: Adventurer, 6-10: Hero, 11-15: Champion, 16-20: Legend.

Ability scores: d20 core for the moment - possibly simply with modifiers (a la True20).

Races & Classes: 4 "basic" classes a la 2e: Warrior, Priest, Rogue, Wizard. I kinda like the broad "Specialist" group from Mazes & Monsters instead of Rogues, and I'd like either combine or further differentiate Priests & Wizards, but there are issues with that.

Everything else class & race related becomes an Aspect. Characters gain Aspects at 1st, 3rd, 8th, 13th, and 18th level. Elf would be a Race Aspect, while Paladin might be a Class (Warrior or Priest) Aspect and Thief would be a Rogue Aspect. Race Aspects can (with certain exceptions) only be taken at first level, so only humans could start out at first level with a Class Aspect (ie, a 1st level character could be a Human Thief or a Halfling Rogue, but not a Halfling Thief). Prestige classes are subsumed into Aspects, as are racial divisions (ie Wood Elf might be an Aspect available to Elves at 3rd level).

Spells would be 1-20 levels, not 1-9, as per Book of Experimental Might, and be broken into Common, Rare, Exotic as per Arcana Evolved. Base classes (Wizard & Priest) would have access to Common spells, while Aspects would grant Rare and Exotic spells. More descriptors; few or no schools. Pare down & simplify spell list.

Combat: Break weapons into groups per Unearthed Arcana, treat unarmed combat & grappling as a weapon groups; minimal special rules.

Reduce/eliminate bonus "types"; no stacking; possibly add defense bonus that works on an either/or fashion with armor; make some armor (and weapons) "better/harder/more specialized" and not available to lower levels.

 

[JDJblatherings]

Always more fun being an omnivorous DM.

 

[Nellisir]

Always more fun being an omnivorous DM.

No kidding. I didn't realize quite how much I wanted to draw off of until I started writing it down (which is rather the point, actually - get organized!)

More little bits...
I'm not sure if classes should have neat "capstone" abilities at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level; "kickstart" abilities at 1st, 6th, 11th, and 16th level; or both. Both seems a bit much. Classes will also have some general abilities, probably customizable or variable depending on Aspects.

Aspects will tend to have flat bonuses, or ratchet up slowly - races shouldn't be overpowered at low levels, or underpowered at high levels. A 5th level Wood Elf warrior should have a similar number of (in-play) options to a 5th level Elf Fighter or Human Fighter-Ranger (for example).

So, Classes > Aspects > Feats. Feats would be every level, and take over a fair number of current class skills. I really want to move away from feats that just give a numerical bonus - I'd rather those disappear into Aspects, basic character progression, or thin air.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Interesting. I like the Aspects idea.

RC

 

[Nellisir]

I've gotten a bit further with the initial design, and will try to get an actual document up in the next few days. Here's a partial rundown of where I'm at, though. This is all tentative, but I like the direction. It "feels" complex, but I think once everything is in place, the DM's side will be really simple, and the player's side will only be complex out of combat (during leveling), and even then, less so than d20 core. And most numbers will be roughly close to existing d20 numbers.

Ability scores are "modifier-only"; ie a conventional d20 ability score of 10 is a +0. Wisdom and Charisma are dropped in exchange for Intuition (Wit save) and Presence (Will save).
Characters start with 3 points to allocate as they wish, and can decrease one score to add to another. Scores are capped at 1/2 level +1, so the first level max score is +1. Races (or Race Aspects) increase or decrease the cap; ie a dwarf has a limit of 1/2 level +2 for his Constitution (max +2 at first level), and 1/2 level on his Intuition (max +0 at first level).

Characters gain another ability point every level.

Pretty much all the bonuses are built off one of three tracks: Proficient (+1 per 2 character levels), Specialized (+1 per class level), or Focused (+1 at 1st level, +2 at 5th level, +3 at 10th level, etc, etc.)

Skill Points are expanded into Character Points.

Warriors, and only warriors, can spend cp to become specialized in a weapon group. Everyone else can become proficient in weapon groups. Rogues can become Focused on roguish weapons (by individual weapon, not groups), and Priests can become Focused on their holy weapons (ditto). Warriors can probably become focused on specialized weapons.

Class Skills can be Specialized for 1 cp; non-class skills can be Proficient for 1 cp; either can be Focused.

Ability checks can be focused, but saves cannot. Saves are always proficient. (Edit: Actually, saves might be "Focused" instead of Proficient. Have to think about this one.)

Arcane casters will have schools, and divine casters will have spheres; right now those will be able to be proficient, focused, or specialized.

Armor Class will become a "Defense Save", and equal either Defense + Dex (duck & weave), Defense + Con (shrug it off), or Defense + Armor (armor sucks it up) (player's choice). Armor and Shields will probably be focusable. You'll have to be "proficient" to wear armor, but it won't grant an increasing bonus like a "Proficient" skill. This is pretty hypothetical right now.

There are 6 "ability" saves (plus defense). Saves advance at 1/2 character level (re 4e) + ability score + aspect bonus. Pretty much the same as right now, except totals will be slightly higher, and since you can't take just one level of an aspect, no cherrypicking to boost saves.

 

[Wik]

Shameless plug, here, but if you think you can narrow your base system down to 50 pages or so, you should enter it into the Great Conjunction RPG Design Contest.

And I also love the aspects idea. I think it'd be neat to allow Players to take multiple race aspects, as well - so a half-elf would simply be a human who took "elf" as his aspect, while a dwarf with the halfling aspect could be a dwarf who was raised by halflings, or whatever else the Player could dream up.

All in all, I think you're on the right track. I'd mess with a few established "D&Disms", just to really make the system your own; get rid of Vancian magic, use a weird hit point system (Reserve Points!), use Armour as DR, Weapon Groups (great for any system that has a "Feat every level" mechanic), and all that jazz.

 

[Nellisir]

Shameless plug, here, but if you think you can narrow your base system down to 50 pages or so, you should enter it into the Great Conjunction RPG Design Contest.

Yeah, I can probably do that. And it'll be a nice thing to shoot for. Get the foundation settled.

And I also love the aspects idea. I think it'd be neat to allow Players to take multiple race aspects, as well - so a half-elf would simply be a human who took "elf" as his aspect, while a dwarf with the halfling aspect could be a dwarf who was raised by halflings, or whatever else the Player could dream up.

I've thought about this, but I haven't figured out how to make it work. In the interest of simplicity, I figure things should add up, not subtract. So taking the Elf aspect after 1st level still gives you elf powers, not diluted elf powers.

In that same vein, I think aspects shouldn't negate other aspects - so dwarf + elf = 2 aspects, and isn't any weaker than dwarf + soldier, or elf + wizard.

That said, some rules are made to be broken, and there might be a way to do it with a "Half" aspect, or a "Human" aspect.

All in all, I think you're on the right track. I'd mess with a few established "D&Disms", just to really make the system your own; get rid of Vancian magic,

Vancian magic stays, albeit with 20 levels.

use a weird hit point system (Reserve Points!)

Check!

use Armour as DR

Nope, AC stays - DR is too complex.

Weapon Groups (great for any system that has a "Feat every level" mechanic)

Check!

and all that jazz.

No more 3-18 ability scores; no more auto-hit magic missile (probably), no more +1 swords, and ability score increases every level. It's a start, anyways.

Thanks for the comments!

 

[exile]

Someone mentioned a dwarf raised by halflings above...maybe you could emulate this by having racial aspects as well as cultural aspects. Maybe some cultural aspects are soemhow more difficult to acquire for certain races than they are others. Maybe a character with the dwarf aspect wants to take a shire halfling aspect as well. While halflings could simply acquire shire halfling as a new aspect, the dwarf might have to spend a character point to do so.

Chad

 

[Nellisir]

Someone mentioned a dwarf raised by halflings above...maybe you could emulate this by having racial aspects as well as cultural aspects. Maybe some cultural aspects are soemhow more difficult to acquire for certain races than they are others. Maybe a character with the dwarf aspect wants to take a shire halfling aspect as well. While halflings could simply acquire shire halfling as a new aspect, the dwarf might have to spend a character point to do so.

Chad

Something like that might work, or smaller things (like half-races) might work better with feats. The problem is, right now there are only 4 classes: warrior, priest, mage, rogue. Aspects take on most of the work classes do in 3e, but you can't switch in and out of them at will. Plus, every aspect ties you down for 5 levels (except the very first one, which is a special case), and ought to be (roughly) equal to every other aspect.

I'm taking away all of the +X feats - feats will give some kind of power or modify an existing one above and beyond a simple numerical bonus (numerical bonuses are the realm of character points and focus/proficiency; full stop) - so there's room for more feats.

I'm going to keep thinking about it, but I've been driving 11 hours today, and am stuck in a crummy motel tonight, with a good chance of having to spend -another- night on the road tomorrow due to the rain/ice storm in the northeast. My 2-year old daughter will not be pleased at being stuck in a motel instead of hanging with her "GG" (grandma), so no quick answers. But keep the suggestions coming!

 

[Melba Toast]

Is your homebrew based on the Pirates of Darkwater animated series from the early 90's, because that was an awesome show, and I actually did create a campaign world based on it.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pUCSsAo638"]Pirates of Dark Water[/ame]


Never actually played a game in the setting though.