Dave Arneson and D&D

[kenjib]

Thanks for all of the great info everyone. I think I've got a good picture now.

 

[Voadam]

timing

WotC just released the DA blackmoor series of modules as for sale ESDs on their site. I can't tell from the cover pictures if they are by Arneson or just OD&D modules based off of his stuff.

 

[Morrow]

Re: timing

WotC just released the DA blackmoor series of modules as for sale ESDs on their site. I can't tell from the cover pictures if they are by Arneson or just OD&D modules based off of his stuff.

Arneson co-wrote DA 1, 2, and 3, but had nothing to do with DA 4.

Morrow

 

[JohnRTroy]

From what I've remembered, at least from what Frank Mentzer said, this is basically what happened.

What basically happened was Gary quit his job as an insurance underwriter, and started his endeavor. He and his partners made a lot of personal sacrifices--Gary would mend shoes to help pay immediate needs like food and shelter.

Once D&D became the "underground smash", /then/ Dave came looking to contribute and wanting credit/royalties.

The main thing that sort of irked Gary Gygax was Dave's contribution to the original D&D game was only a percentage of one of the three little books, the "dungeon crawl".

I think DA was paid pretty well for the original game, at least according to his contributions, but I don't know everything.

I haven't seen Dave write that much for the industry. I think Dave is focused more on all sorts of gaming, including war games. At least to my knowledge, he certainly is not as prolific as Gary's been with output (and quality IMO).

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I don't know about the rest of you but I want to know who the author of this is because this sentance right here ends years of debate and slams a few lies in the face of people over where all those Tolkien like monsters in DnD came from origionally.

OUCH!

I pulled this off a the RPGnet forum about this same question.

Arneson v. Gygax
Author: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Date: 12-11-2001 09:52

<snip>

Then the bright idea was hit on -- let's add critters from Tolkein! Yes, we can refight the Lord of the Rings!

<snip>

 

[Davelozzi]

Re: Re: Dave Arneson and D&D

I don't know about the rest of you but I want to know who the author of this is because this sentance right here ends years of debate and slams a few lies in the face of people over where all those Tolkien like monsters in DnD came from origionally.

If we don't know who said it, how can it end years of debate and slam anything in anyone's face? I could say whatever I want about something that I know nothing about but I would hardly think that doing so would bring resolution to the issue. I'm not trying to imply that this author, or you Doc, don't know anything about the issue, I'm just pointing out that as long as they remain anoymous we certainly can't put much credence in the quote as a factual statement.

 

[Henry@home]

However, some of these things can be traced by factual evidence, such as the appearance of Hobbits, Balrogs, and Mithril in the game. Tolkien had no claim on Elves, Dwarves, or Orcs, but the lawsuit spoke volumes on the other things.

 

[trancejeremy]

I haven't seen Dave write that much for the industry. I think Dave is focused more on all sorts of gaming, including war games. At least to my knowledge, he certainly is not as prolific as Gary's been with output (and quality IMO).

Dave Arneson wrote one module for Shadowrun DOA/DNA (one of the first ones). Other than that, I'm not sure if he's written any sort of game product other than the Blackmoor stuff.

I've only got 1 Blackmoor title (and that as an ESD, as the Blackmoor things are fairly rare) and I think it's pretty good, if a bit odd. DOA/DNA was a decent module, something of a dungeon crawl, but a decent one.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Re: Re: Re: Dave Arneson and D&D

Umm, that is why I wrote that I wished I knew who wrote this bit. If all those creatures were added as described then every statement made to the contrary is a straight out lie.

OR the lies could be going to other way and the letter quoted could be the lie.

Since there are other things like mithril to point to I think the author of this anonymous note is closer to the truth then all the elaborate statements about the extensive study of folklore.

If we don't know who said it, how can it end years of debate and slam anything in anyone's face? I could say whatever I want about something that I know nothing about but I would hardly think that doing so would bring resolution to the issue. I'm not trying to imply that this author, or you Doc, don't know anything about the issue, I'm just pointing out that as long as they remain anoymous we certainly can't put much credence in the quote as a factual statement.

 

[MerricB]

It's probably a mistake to take anything Dave Arneson says at face value, the same as it's a mistake to do so with what Gary Gygax says. Like it as not, they'll distort the facts through their perceptions of the events.

Orcs, Hobbits and Elves from LotR are big influences, certainly. But so are the Harold Shea stories (by Sprague De Camp and Pratt), and the Barsoom books (by E.R.Burroughs) and other sources.

Given that www.castleblackmoor.com (the Arneson website) incorrectly lists TSR as having the rights to the LotR rpg (they've never held it, if my facts are straight), it doesn't instill great confidence in me.

Iron Crown Enterprises held it from 1982-1999, Decipher Inc. currently holds the licence.

Perhaps the website's maintainer is mistaking the Star Wars RPG rights with the LotR rights? He's changed the original entry from what it was on the basis of an e-mail from me, but it's still wrong.

That said, I've the greatest respect for what Arneson and Gygax have done. There are probably some parallels between this and the work of Leibnitz and Newton, but I think they're fairly weak.

Cheers!