D&D 4E David Noonan on 4E "Cloudwatching" (Added Dave's newest comment from his blog)

[WizarDru]

For instance, I think that we're almost a week into September and still no word on playtesting is worrisome.

What sort of word on playtesting were you expecting? It's happening...under NDAs, so there's really not much that can or is being said. Were you expecting detailed playtester announcements?

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

What sort of word on playtesting were you expecting? It's happening...under NDAs, so there's really not much that can or is being said. Were you expecting detailed playtester announcements?

There's a post floating around about having a sign-up in September for interested playtesters to apply. And even a call to watch DDI for when it happens.

Nobody has seen anything.

So either all of the playtesting will be Super Secret Double Probation Playtesting or they haven't started broad playtesting yet.

--fje

 

[Jer]

Poor guy probably glanced at the Wizards forums.

It's like someone opened the Ark of the Covenant over there.

Meh. He should have a thick skin if he's going to wade into the cesspool as a designer. Heck, I don't like wading into the waters over at the Wizards forums sometimes, and I'm just a loudmouthed guy on the Internets.

I actually didn't think his post was that angry OR patronizing (though the rain dance bit of the metaphor was a bit ... insensitive might be best word to use but not quite what I mean ... maybe "ill chosen"). I thought it read more like someone amused about the fact that people are complaining about something that they haven't even seen yet. Though, really, Noonan was working for Wizards during the 3e rollout so this can't be all that new to him.

 

[DaveMage]

"Once the avalanche begins, it is too late for the pebbles to complain..."

Kosh, Babylon 5

Tsk tsk - no paraphrasing!

"The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."


"Hi. I'm Dave and I'm a pebble."

 

[Irda Ranger]

And this blog post I think is way too easily taken badly. Even looking with a generally favorable eye, the whole bit on fist-shaking and rain dancing (I'm of native American heritage, so, thanks for the sensitivity in portraying my people) just comes off generally like A) This particular person at WotC doesn't care and B) he is, instead, amused by the antics of the little people.

Which is to say, this isn't too hard to see as being really patronizing. I think I get what he's trying to say, but his choice of metaphor to hang it off of and use of characterizations was ... less than favorable. To me, anyway.

--fje

QFT. And thank you for putting it nicely, since I was in no mood to.

This is the second arrogant and out-of-touch logorrhea I've seen from a WotC designer in a 24-hour period (the first being the "I hate no clear roles" comments by Andy Collins). This is not a good sign. I was actually looking forward to 4e a lot, but this stuff makes me think that they think "they know better" what and how I should play.

 

[WotC_Dave]

Dave Noonan sounds just a little pissed off.

Really? You should read the whole blog entry. I've been ridiculously happy all day.

As for the patronizing thing, well, that wasn't my intent. And it's embarrassing when you write for a living and can't get your point across properly. Sorry about that.

Lemme try again: The game is coming out in May. Until then, your reactions to it are your own. They don't change the inevitable release of the game. It might not be worth it to get completely amped up--positively or negatively--because May is a long ways off. Telling us what's working/not working at your table right now is a good idea. We're still working on the game, after all.

There. That's what I was trying to say...insofar as I'm able to articulate it.

--Dave.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

So either all of the playtesting will be Super Secret Double Probation Playtesting or they haven't started broad playtesting yet.

I think its safe to say the second applies. Limited playtesting may or may not be under way, but we wouldn't know because anyone involved would be under an NDA.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

There. That's what I was trying to say...insofar as I'm able to articulate it.

--Dave.

Roland Barthes FTW!

Or, "death of the author".

I.E. textuality.

Or, more precisely, I think my major question was how the post COULD be interpreted, not how it was meant. I looked upon the intent with as favorable an eye as I could. I think the folks over at WotC are big old Gamer Nerds as much as the guy next to me or I am myself, and I generally try not to ascribe negative motives to the things they do.

Y'know, other than accounting and upper management.

No amount of make-up can hide their horns.

--fje

 

[Zimri]

And this blog post I think is way too easily taken badly. Even looking with a generally favorable eye, the whole bit on fist-shaking and rain dancing (I'm of native American heritage, so, thanks for the sensitivity in portraying my people) just comes off generally like A) This particular person at WotC doesn't care and B) he is, instead, amused by the antics of the little people.

I can see your point about this (kinda) almost made me sign up so I could PM this too you instead but naw I don't like talking in secret.

There are many more cultures than native americans (and even many varied cultures within that great first nation) that have rain dances and shaman. There are also very many caucasian farmers that will shake their fists at the sky. I know I married one.

The winds of change ARE blowing. They will not be turned aside. I don't think anyone actually believes (though I may be wrong) that there will be a hew and cry from the 3.5 grassroots saying "this far and no farther" large enough to significantly impact the WOTC sales projections. I don't think even if you tied in grognards (whatever that term really means) from all previous editions that the groundswell would be large enough to stop this from happening. And I am glad about that. I LIKE the changes that are coming even though they get rid of some of my favorite things (monks and changelings okay changelings may be in but we haven't heard for sure yet).

The naysayers COULD be right it could be too late to effect change based on playtesting and comments now I have no Idea about publishing and shipping deadlines. I still trust the internal playtesting and yeah they said "no 4e" for a long time then bam it was announced every company I've interacted with acts this way from phone to electric to banks to credit cards. Doesn't make me wanna curl up in a ball and stop engaging in society though.

 

[Rel]

There. That's what I was trying to say...insofar as I'm able to articulate it.

--Dave.

Thanks for the comments and clarification, Dave. They are always welcome here.