DCC Level 0 Character Funnel is a Bad Concept

[Parmandur]

If you happen to roll something that is race-specific, like "elf" that means you have to be an elf class at Level 1.
Of my 4 character funnel characters, I had 2 elves that would have made terrible elves. Then a potato farmer with no positive ability scores. And another character who could basically cuss at the monsters.

It makes less of a difference in play in DCC than you might think.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Man, I thought the days of purely random PCs were behind us. Why would anyone join an adventuring group like that? 'Well, we can't fight, think, or run, so let's load up and go kick the liche lord's a$$'*.

* = Sounds sort of like a reality TV show when I re-read that line.

 

[billd91]

Random ability scores is one thing. But then to add to that a random background to imply you're a warrior with a terrible Str and Con score. Or a wizard-type with no Int. I've never seen a system that makes race/class AND ability scores random. It makes no sense.

It worked OK for Warhammer Fantasy. I played first edition of that while in college. You picked your race, rolled for the stats, picked your general grouping of career but rolled for it from there.

 

[Retreater]

Man, I thought the days of purely random PCs were behind us. Why would anyone join an adventuring group like that? 'Well, we can't fight, think, or run, so let's load up and go kick the liche lord's a$$'*.

* = Sounds sort of like a reality TV show when I re-read that line.

I think that's the premise. Kind of a chuckle concept for a product line that doesn't take itself too seriously. Where the players sit around and laugh at the amusing way your character dies at a random die roll.
"Oh, you rolled a 94? ... Your character turns into a chicken and Colonel Sanders chases you out of the dungeon with a cleaver. Hardy har har."
That's the impression I got anyway.

 

[Retreater]

It worked OK for Warhammer Fantasy. I played first edition of that while in college. You picked your race, rolled for the stats, picked your general grouping of career but rolled for it from there.

WFRP came out in like the late 80s or so, right?
And even in the example you give, you're picking race and career grouping. You at least get some say in your character creation.
In DCC the only choice you get is to name your character, which I think isn't even recommended until level 1.
In 1974 OD&D you had random ability scores but got to pick class and equipment at least.

 

[Parmandur]

I think that's the premise. Kind of a chuckle concept for a product line that doesn't take itself too seriously. Where the players sit around and laugh at the amusing way your character dies at a random die roll.
"Oh, you rolled a 94? ... Your character turns into a chicken and Colonel Sanders chases you out of the dungeon with a cleaver. Hardy har har."
That's the impression I got anyway.

Things change dramatically in terms of survivability past Level 0.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I think that's the premise. Kind of a chuckle concept for a product line that doesn't take itself too seriously. Where the players sit around and laugh at the amusing way your character dies at a random die roll.
"Oh, you rolled a 94? ... Your character turns into a chicken and Colonel Sanders chases you out of the dungeon with a cleaver. Hardy har har."
That's the impression I got anyway.

Sad.

 

[overgeeked]

So I had the misfortune recently of playing a Level 0 Character Funnel for my first experience of Dungeon Crawl Classics. I'll describe the ordeal for you.
1) Six players. Four characters each. Two actions a turn. For a ridiculous 48 actions per turn (plus the monsters actions.) Keeping up with positioning of 24 characters, what they're doing, etc.

That's not how it works in DCC. You get a move and an action. So you're not attacking twice until higher levels. Most funnels have the players controlling one, maybe two, of their characters at a time. For the reason you mention. I ran a funnel with nine players, each only controlling one at a time. It worked fine.

2) Random character creation is awful in the system, because your class/background has no bearing on your ability scores. So I had an elven sage with a 4 Int. Even if he survived, what would I have wanted to do, play a worthless elf who couldn't even use magic.

Right. But that's also why you get a stable of characters. You throw the terrible ones at the monsters for the lulz and use them as guards for the characters with better stats. 0-level funnels are very much in the old-school vein of lots of character death in a short time and you're meant to laugh at it. You only get attached to the characters who live.

3) Random die rolls to kill characters.

That's not how DCC should work.

If you're going to use a character funnel with a stable of characters, the player should be able to volunteer the character to be killed as "tribute" - or at least have their actions lead to the character death. My best characters died before I got a chance to make a single decision and I was left with garbage tier random generated losers unfit to adventure.

That's exactly how DCC should work.

The experience has completely soured me on the game system.

That's really too bad. It's a great game, but it's not for everyone. It does a niche style of play that is off-putting to a fair amount of people. If it's any consolation, once you level up it gets better. If at some point you're willing to play DCC again, try getting in on a 1st-level game or something run by one of the Road Crew Judges.

We didn't use a grid. You still have to know what characters are where and what they're doing in theatre of the mind. If anything, it's probably even more to keep up with when you don't have a visual representation.

More often than not you're only controlling one character at a time. The rest of your stable is "off camera".

Random ability scores is one thing. But then to add to that a random background to imply you're a warrior with a terrible Str and Con score. Or a wizard-type with no Int. I've never seen a system that makes race/class AND ability scores random. It makes no sense.

It sort of does, sort of doesn't. Your race and occupation is randomly rolled. But unless you roll a non-human, that doesn't determine your class. As mentioned, it's a function of race-as-class.

There's chaos, and then there's just random "roll on a chart and your character is dead." And then it doesn't come down to skill, good play, or anything besides dumb luck. At that point you're just playing Yahtzee with your die rolls.

Yep. That's the aesthetic it's going for...during the 0-level funnel. It's fun house PC death time. And you're facing off against chaos demons with chainswords. You either accept that and laugh at your characters dying like flies...think Paranoia, without the clones...or you bounce off the game. Again, it's not for everyone. And that's fine. But, it's only like that during the funnel.

Maybe it was a bad GM, a bad group, a bad adventure, etc., but I can't understand how in Hades you handle 24 characters in an adventure without it becoming a bogged down, bad experience.

It sounds like a lot of things might have gone wrong in short order.

Sorry you had a bad time.

Goodman Games, the publishers of DCC, have a cool website with an events page where the Road Crew, their crack team of goblin Judges (aka DMs) post upcoming games they're running. You might find one near you or one online that you're able to get into. The Judges are generally really good and know what they're doing. They have regular Tuesday night demos that have people raving.

Events for May 2023

goodman-games.com

 

[overgeeked]

This was Accursed Heart of the World Ender. There was a random chart to mutate your character, which could lead to your character's death - or at least "forced retirement from the adventure."

It sounds like it was a lot of low rolls. There's also results where you add 2d7 to your stats. Double in size, gaining a +2 to all attacks and damage. Your brain grows huge and you get an 18 INT...but -2 AC because your head is an easy target. Or transforming into a monstrous race...and gaining the ability to advance as any class you want.

Only rolling incredibly low, like 01-05 on d100 removes a character from play via death. The entire rest of the chart yields still playable characters.

If your Judge was just picking off characters with mutations and saying they died or were forced out of play...it sounds like a jerk GM using the game to be a jerk.

Other moments were like, "this villain appears and you can't get away or act - I'm going to roll randomly around the table and kill a character each turn. Based on what comes up on the die, it could be your best character, worst character, character with the most defined personality, etc."

That's 100% the GM explicitly being a jerk. That's not how the module works.

It's worth noting that the villain is a 100' tall skeletal demon with massive hit points and an alternate win condition build in...which the module tells the GM to repeatedly remind the players about. It's very much not meant to be simply attacked.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Right. But that's also why you get a stable of characters. You throw the terrible ones at the monsters for the lulz and use them as guards for the characters with better stats. 0-level funnels are very much in the old-school vein of lots of character death in a short time and you're meant to laugh at it. You only get attached to the characters who live.

Lulz?