DCC Level 0 Character Funnel is a Bad Concept

[overgeeked]

Lulz?

LOLs. Laughs. The funny.

 

[darkwillow]

So I had the misfortune recently of playing a Level 0 Character Funnel for my first experience of Dungeon Crawl Classics. I'll describe the ordeal for you.

This made my day, soooo funny. I agree its sounds dumb, but that and a keg of beer sounds hilarious.

 

[Ath-kethin]

Add me to the "sorry you had a lousy time" chorus. I love DCC, and the funnel is often the most enjoyable part of the game.

An important thing to remember - and this is REALLY important - is that in DCC you get experience for surviving encounters, not winning them. And beyond that, there's always an option beyond "attack on sight!". In fact, combat should generally be the LAST option, especially for a bunch of peasants with shovels and rocks.

It also sounds to me like there were too many characters - but it's also true that if you are used to characters who are superheroes from level 1, like the last couple editions of D&D, DCC is going to be a very different experience. And obviously one not to everyone's liking.

 

[Retreater]

It also sounds to me like there were too many characters - but it's also true that if you are used to characters who are superheroes from level 1, like the last couple editions of D&D, DCC is going to be a very different experience. And obviously one not to everyone's liking.

While I've played more modern editions, I was coming into DCC thinking it would be closer to OSE or Swords & Wizardry. So I'm definitely accustomed to the cautious, pick-your-battles style of play.
In this specific adventure, we didn't get the choice to pick battles. Maybe it was the Judge running it, maybe it was the way the module was constructed. There was no way to avoid encounters. We were charged by enemies who instantly attacked, we had no chance of getting around them, we were surrounded with no chance to escape, we were commanded by our superiors to fight or the "world would be destroyed," etc.

 

[Ath-kethin]

While I've played more modern editions, I was coming into DCC thinking it would be closer to OSE or Swords & Wizardry. So I'm definitely accustomed to the cautious, pick-your-battles style of play.
In this specific adventure, we didn't get the choice to pick battles. Maybe it was the Judge running it, maybe it was the way the module was constructed. There was no way to avoid encounters. We were charged by enemies who instantly attacked, we had no chance of getting around them, we were surrounded with no chance to escape, we were commanded by our superiors to fight or the "world would be destroyed," etc.

That's a damn shame. I've never run or played "Accursed Heart," so I can't speak to it specifically, but the funnels I've run and/or played through didn't have that problem.

My personal favorite funnel is "The Portal Under the Stars." IMO it's honestly the best intro to DCC both in terms of playability and setting expectations for the kind of weird stuff the game brings/encourages. Also it's pretty short.

But most funnels also say they're designed for 8-20 characters, which is a bit more manageable than 20-odd. It still strains credibility to have 16 or 20 peasants single filing their way down a 10' corridor, but with the threat of colorful death so eminent, we don't want to have players run out of characters to play too quickly.

It's also true, however, that the longest running DCC campaign I ever ran started at level 1, with characters not quite so randomly generated as the book suggests. For one thing, I let everybody choose their class - so a character with the Elven Cook background, for example, doesn't need to be an elf at all.

 

[AverageMojito]

and the funnel is often the most enjoyable part of the game.

That's a statement so often repeated when talking about DCC that I sometimes wonder if the game book should even have rules beyond funnel.

I understand that I can start with level 1 characters if I want, but it seems there's so much time and effort outside the book dedicated to the funnel gameplay that it makes a hard time for me to take the game serious beyond "killing fun house". And, to me, that's not worth the investment in a big book and weirder dice. I can run one-shot killing fun houses with the material I already own.

TLDR: DCC media focus so much on the funnel experience it fails to sell the game as something else to me.

 

[payn]

That's a statement so often repeated when talking about DCC that I sometimes wonder if the game book should even have rules beyond funnel.

I understand that I can start with level 1 characters if I want, but it seems there's so much time and effort outside the book dedicated to the funnel gameplay that it makes a hard time for me to take the game serious beyond "killing fun house". And, to me, that's not worth the investment in a big book and weirder dice. I can run one-shot killing fun houses with the material I already own.

TLDR: DCC media focus so much on the funnel experience it fails to sell the game as something else to me.

I can see this. There is definitely a gear shift from funnel play into level 1+ play. Funnel is run for your life and see if you survive. It's the ultimate one shot fun. Afterwards, you begin a campaign and should be much more cautious, but are also more capable as well. I find that the Goodman adventures are more fun than leveling up characters and the mechanics of the DCC system. For OSR play, it's not my favorite system, but I will do a funnel any day of the week!

 

[Jd Smith1]

LOLs. Laughs. The funny.

Ah.

 

[Jd Smith1]

An important thing to remember - and this is REALLY important - is that in DCC you get experience for surviving encounters, not winning

That sounds like a 'participation awards' sort of approach. I'm a big fan of the possibility of player defeat, but its not built into the system as a goal.

 

[the Jester]

So I had the misfortune recently of playing a Level 0 Character Funnel for my first experience of Dungeon Crawl Classics. I'll describe the ordeal for you.
1) Six players. Four characters each. Two actions a turn. For a ridiculous 48 actions per turn (plus the monsters actions.) Keeping up with positioning of 24 characters, what they're doing, etc.
2) Random character creation is awful in the system, because your class/background has no bearing on your ability scores. So I had an elven sage with a 4 Int. Even if he survived, what would I have wanted to do, play a worthless elf who couldn't even use magic.
3) Random die rolls to kill characters. If you're going to use a character funnel with a stable of characters, the player should be able to volunteer the character to be killed as "tribute" - or at least have their actions lead to the character death. My best characters died before I got a chance to make a single decision and I was left with garbage tier random generated losers unfit to adventure.
The experience has completely soured me on the game system.

Sounds like DCC is not suited to your playstyle.

I loved it, but the group I played it with dwindled away because it definitely isn't for everyone.