Those lvl-0 character cards I mentioned earlier, I have the players put their cards in a line from themselves towards the centre of the table. The card closest to the centre is the one in the middle of the action ... most of the time. There are occasional exceptions where combat is too chaotic for that, or where anyone might be targeted. So it's not a guarantee, but it's a way to tilts the odds in favour of that character you want to survive.
DCC Level 0 Character Funnel is a Bad Concept
- Thread starter Retreater
- Start date
CapnZapp
Legend
Absolutely. There should definitely be a way for the player to safeguard some characters and expose others.
On the other hand, if your favorite character suddenly dies, don't complain - nobody gave any guarantees.
And, of course, if you can't handle external factors and randomness resulting in irrecoverable loss, maybe you should play a safer game such as 5th edition instead.
The advantage of the DCC approach is that the heroes that DO survive feel actually heroic. They have DESERVED their fame (and their class abilities). They have faced actual danger (as opposed to a game that works very hard to create an illusion of danger). They have seen their fellow party members die, sometimes through no fault of their own. They have persevered and willingly* entered danger despite the game not giving two shits if you live or die. That's real heroism in my view.
*) except when forced
Far too often in a game such as 5th edition heroes level up while hearing how great and heroic they are... but they haven't really deserved much of it. They are GIVEN abilities that nobody else gets. The game goes out of its way to shield you from dangers you can't handle. The game has NPCs repeatedly tell the PCs how great and heroic they are even before they have had the chance to actually be heroic. And the heroics they do accomplish are much less dangerous than it appears because of all their hit points and abilities...
...so are they really heroes..?
It's when you feel overdosed on 5th edition's artificially created heroics, its when you start feeling your 5E hero feels fake... that a game such as DCC (and TBH most OSR games) will feel like a breath of fresh air.
To see the OP still fighting this, and apparently still not be able to accept that what he feels are weaknesses of these game ARE MEANT AS FEATURES and it's not the game that's bad for the OP but that it's the OP that is bad for the game is slightly disheartening.
TL;DR: simply don't play DCC when you can't see the value of its features, and yes, those things are features and not bugs. Maybe wait a couple of years, burn yourself out on the faux-heroics of "modern" D&D and THEN you might come to see why people love OSR and DCC!
On the other hand, if your favorite character suddenly dies, don't complain - nobody gave any guarantees.
And, of course, if you can't handle external factors and randomness resulting in irrecoverable loss, maybe you should play a safer game such as 5th edition instead.
The advantage of the DCC approach is that the heroes that DO survive feel actually heroic. They have DESERVED their fame (and their class abilities). They have faced actual danger (as opposed to a game that works very hard to create an illusion of danger). They have seen their fellow party members die, sometimes through no fault of their own. They have persevered and willingly* entered danger despite the game not giving two shits if you live or die. That's real heroism in my view.
*) except when forced
Far too often in a game such as 5th edition heroes level up while hearing how great and heroic they are... but they haven't really deserved much of it. They are GIVEN abilities that nobody else gets. The game goes out of its way to shield you from dangers you can't handle. The game has NPCs repeatedly tell the PCs how great and heroic they are even before they have had the chance to actually be heroic. And the heroics they do accomplish are much less dangerous than it appears because of all their hit points and abilities...
...so are they really heroes..?
It's when you feel overdosed on 5th edition's artificially created heroics, its when you start feeling your 5E hero feels fake... that a game such as DCC (and TBH most OSR games) will feel like a breath of fresh air.
To see the OP still fighting this, and apparently still not be able to accept that what he feels are weaknesses of these game ARE MEANT AS FEATURES and it's not the game that's bad for the OP but that it's the OP that is bad for the game is slightly disheartening.
TL;DR: simply don't play DCC when you can't see the value of its features, and yes, those things are features and not bugs. Maybe wait a couple of years, burn yourself out on the faux-heroics of "modern" D&D and THEN you might come to see why people love OSR and DCC!
Last edited:
I'd wager that I've have played D&D as long as many people here. (I started DMing in 1989.)
I've never said that I mind character death or that I want characters to be superheroes.
I just don't like games where the PCs are worse than everything encountered. Even in the earliest editions of D&D, a magic user's spell could come in clutch. Or a fighter might have better armor or more hit points than a goblin.
To me, the funnel just seems bad design. It's also what DCC bases the product line upon. It's the primary selling point: a Session 0 adventure.
I've never said that I mind character death or that I want characters to be superheroes.
I just don't like games where the PCs are worse than everything encountered. Even in the earliest editions of D&D, a magic user's spell could come in clutch. Or a fighter might have better armor or more hit points than a goblin.
To me, the funnel just seems bad design. It's also what DCC bases the product line upon. It's the primary selling point: a Session 0 adventure.
TwoSix
Everyone's literal second-favorite poster
They're fictional characters. No fictional character has heroism outside of the heroism assigned to them by the creators of the fiction.
If having a character survive a fictional lottery of traps to be the only survivor grants some faux-verisimilitude of heroism, more (fictional) power to you, I guess.
overgeeked
Open-World Sandbox
Yes, they’re fictional but that’s never stopped humans before. People cheer, laugh, cry, and scream over fictional characters all the time. See all of literature, stage, film, television, comic books, etc. Empathizing with and rooting for fictional characters is something humans do.
Being told a character is a hero is infinitely less impactful than seeing them exhibit the traits of heroism. That’s the difference between being handed a backstory vs playing through a backstory.
Just reading about it works when the author is a good writer who knows how fiction works, earns the readers’ trust, manipulates the readers’ emotional responses, describes things well, etc. In short is a good writer. That’s not the case for most people.
TwoSix
Everyone's literal second-favorite poster
Im sure that works for some people. I just see a character that got lucky.
It’s like playing a Squid game RPG and picking your real character from the survivors of Red Light, Green Light.
overgeeked
Open-World Sandbox
They’re not mutually exclusive. A lot of times being a hero means they got lucky.
CapnZapp
Legend
I could say the reverse to you:
If having the game rules and in-world NPCs telling you how smart and daring and heroic you are, despite you being given extreme advantages and benefits not given to anyone else (in particular the hapless monsters you harvest for fun), is enough to give you the verisimilitude of an actual hero, more power to you
I mean, you're not exactly alone. There's probably a hundred times as many D&D gamers as DCC gamers.
My point is that if and when you need more, a game such as DCC will be there waiting for you
CapnZapp
Legend
That's actually much more the point that you maybe realize.
The point is to get away from the player entitlement that D&D almost fosters.
If you have harrowing memories and perhaps even survivor's guilt (or at least can put yourself in the shoes of a character with such trauma), that's a huge step towards gaining OSR sensibilities.
The idea you could fail is almost alien to many (but not all) D&D gamers. While it isn't far from being a core pillar of OSR gaming as far as I understand it. You need to actually put in an effort to succeed, whereas D&D can often feel like you win just by participating.
Both approaches are good, of course. Nothing wrong with a night of good fun where all that is expected of you is... showing up.
But sometimes you need to cleanse your palate and feel your character have actually earned being called a hero.
Of course, being lucky doesn't help here, but as stated, it does help reset the expectations.
TwoSix
Everyone's literal second-favorite poster
That's true. It just doesn't do anything for me, personally.
I'm just generally against any indication that preferring a play style that's more difficult is any sort of sign of actual moral rectitude.
Similar Threads
