DDXP characters - unexpected tactics?

[Hypersmurf]

One thing I saw tossed around earlier regarding flanking - but it's not really clear in the appendix handout - is that as long as two allies are in position, everyone gets Combat Advantage against the flanked enemy. If your fighter and your paladin are adjacent-and-opposite, the hobgoblin is flanked... and therefore the ranger twenty feet away has Combat Advantage.

The appendix handout doesn't phrase it in quite that way, and it could be read that only the people creating the flanking state get the advantage.

-Hyp.

 

[Cadfan]

Feh. That's true. No amount of "expressions of concern" is really going to change things. I just don't appreciate some smug board troll chiming in with a condescending and content free post. I get just as annoyed by "me to!!" or "I'm Yoinking This!!" posts.

I could have written a lengthy post about how, when you don't know something about someone, internet etiquette suggests assuming the best. I could have written a lengthy post about how assumptions of charity apply to employees of Wizards of the Coast, not just regular Joes. I could have written a lengthy post about how obnoxious concern trolling is, even if it doesn't technically violate board policy by using naughty words.

Didn't seem worth it.

 

[keterys]

Far as I know, only the people flanking get the advantage. We had one DM who ran it that way (everyone got it), but the next DM looked up the rule in the book and quoted it as not working that way... so I kinda believe him.

I'd totally be willing to believe it might have worked that way at some point.

 

[Glyfair]

One thing I saw tossed around earlier regarding flanking - but it's not really clear in the appendix handout - is that as long as two allies are in position, everyone gets Combat Advantage against the flanked enemy. If your fighter and your paladin are adjacent-and-opposite, the hobgoblin is flanked... and therefore the ranger twenty feet away has Combat Advantage.

I know I saw one of the designers state that this isn't correct. You need to be one of the flanking allies to be able to take advantage of the Combat Advantage. Unfortunately, I don't remember where I saw this reference, but it was in the last few days.

 

[Wolfspider]

It's not actually that simple, I had to make a correction in a presentation I made once. 300 copies. Because they were not

Hmmm?

 

[fafhrd]

Hmmm?

Example of a durable error.

 

[hong]

I haven't even posted in this thread.

 

[RandomCitizenX]

The primary difference between the Mark, and Quarry/Curse mechanic is that Marks have mechanics which are meant to penalize the marked enemy for ignoring whoever placed the mark. Quarry/Curses are meant to reward the character for sticking to a designated target. Marks are debuffs which occasionally boost an effect. Quarry/Curse are buffs for the striker who uses them,

 

[Colmarr]

But my point is that they're similar enough that it's reasonable to presume that one of the other classes that does "it" has a power that causes damage if you don't attack the placer of the mark/quarry/curse.

Nothing personal helium3, but I'm constantly amazed that people still don't understand how divine challenge works.

It doesn't cause damage "unless the enemy attacks you". It causes damage "if the enemy attacks and the targets don't include you".

So the following are completely legitimate actions that a creature might take without incurring Divine Challenge damage:

1. buffing their allies
2. using any healing ability they might have
3. make skill checks, even if those checks cause damage (eg. toppling a statue onto a PC)
4. use area attacks (eg. breath weapons or spells) so long as the paladin is a target.
5. use multi-target attacks (eg. the Ranger daily) so long as the paladin is one of the targets
6. use "splash" attacks (such as the wizard's Acid Arrow) so long as the paladin is the main target.
7. whistle dixie
8. run away

I personally don't see what the furore is about. The paladin can use his mark to cause damage. The fighter can't. The paladin can't physically stop the monsters reaching the wizard. The fighter can. Seems more-or-less fine to me.

While there is an obvious synergy in having 2 defenders, I don't see how it's any more of a problem than having two controllers, two strikers or 2 leaders.

Edit: Of course, all of the above is based on the "Corrin Reedson" version of Divine Challenge. Who knows what the exact wording of the ability will be after the "errata"...

 

[cdrcjsn]

I personally don't see what the furore is about.

I think it was that it encouraged the Cowardly Marking tactic for the paladin.

Nice list though. Helpful to remember that creatures that the PCs face can also mark now, so the options you listed are all valid for PCs to use when they themselves are marked.

Something interesting with Marks though is that those capable of AoE attacks won't be as significantly hindered by marking, so Fighters and Paladins should save their marking abilities for those not capable of AoE.