DDXP characters - unexpected tactics?

[Tuft]

I would say that it is indeed possible to push people in the danger squares be they traps trigger squares or drops.

Yep, the playtest reports seem to hint at that. But at the same time, there isn't supposed to be any instakill (aka "save-or-die") powers anymore in the game, and the presence of any lethal terrrain feature (lava, sheer drop) turns these forced movements into just such instakill powers...

 

[DeusExMachina]

Yeah, you're going to have to be careful as DM with stuff like lava and chasms with all the involuntary movement going on during combat...

 

[Kwalish Kid]

But my point is that they're similar enough that it's reasonable to presume that one of the other classes that does "it" has a power that causes damage if you don't attack the placer of the mark/quarry/curse.

This is a very unreasonable assumption. So far, there are two defender classes; these are the only classes that should have this sort of ability. We have good reason to suspect that the fighter won't have access to powers that will do damage to an opponent without a direct cause.

If so, why wasn't this caught until roughly a month ago?

The inference that the similarity of powers should lead to the discovery of this particular problem earlier, frankly like many of your inferences regarding playtesting, is also unreasonable. The character sheets were generated with brief versions of the text of the rules. It may have been that in the database for 4E rules, the brief version of this entry was not properly changed. It may be that after translating the existing rule to a brief form, the proof-readers overlooked the text as it reads similarly to the rules as it currently stands.

 

[Tuft]

Yeah, you're going to have to be careful as DM with stuff like lava and chasms with all the involuntary movement going on during combat...

How about rooftops, castle battlements, ramparts, boats and bridges? Also need to be avoided?

 

[Cadfan]

I don't appreciate yet another passive aggressive attempt on your part to put me down, particularly when I then discover that you don't accept PM's.

PMs are not enabled for you, either. I'm pretty certain that PMs are not enabled for the board as a whole.

 

[Goobermunch]

he3,

There's one other possibility you haven't accounted for in relation to the glitch slipping through. It's entirely possible that the delve adventures were written two and a half months ago, when the paladin's ability was still broken.

Then, the bug was discovered and fixed for publication, but in the press of getting the PHB ready for typesetting, no one thought to go back and check the DDXP adventures.

--G

 

[DeusExMachina]

How about rooftops, castle battlements, ramparts, boats and bridges? Also need to be avoided?

While rooftops are dangerous, they are not "you die. no save." dangerous. They don't kill you instantly if you fall off (depending also on the height of the roof of course)...
Boats and bridges usually have some sort of boarding or railing that I would rule prevents somebody from just pushing you off...
Castle battlements are dangerous because they usually have one side that is unprotected, but then you always do see guys falling from them in battle scenes in movies and such, so I guess it kind of makes sense...

 

[tomBitonti]

Consider what marking does.

Defenders have abilities that work only on marked targets.
Being marked means you get a -2 to hit anyone but the guy who marked you.
To be marked often requires an attack roll and thus HP damage.

So you've marked your ally to get rid of an opponents mark.
Your ally now cant attack any of your opponents without a penalty.
Many of your abilities no longer work since they're focused on your friend.
You've likely caused him damage in the process, (albeit likely minor damage).
You've 'Wasted' an action better suited to actually killing off the actual problem causing monster itself.

While their might be a FEW situations where it's worth this...in general I suspect the problems outweigh any potential benefits.

In the list that we've seen, that seems true. But, will the marks get progressively better? And, will a PC be able to select to use a lower level mark, simply to override the higher level mark put on by an opponent?

Can you mark yourself? (!!!)

Can you dismiss a mark? If so, what kind of action is it?

 

[Cadfan]

Yeah, you're going to have to be careful as DM with stuff like lava and chasms with all the involuntary movement going on during combat...

Yeah. Player characters pushing goblins back 10 feet- pretty cool. Goblins pushing player characters back 10 feet- still pretty cool. Players characters pushing goblins 10 feet into lava- totally awesome. Goblins pushing player characters 10 feet into the lava- not so awesome.

The problem with that is that it means that you want rules that let your Level 3 Pushy Goblin (or whoever) push a player character pretty freely on the ground. On flat terrain with no boiling pools of acid, you want to see the power used. It isn't a very powerful power, but its cool, so you want the chance of it succeeding to occur freely.

But once you're fighting between pools of boiling acid, that little not-so-powerful-power is enormously strong. Now, based on your terrain choice, you want that power to threaten and frighten players characters, but to rarely occur.

Here's my solution- make sure things like battlements with hundred foot drops on each side at least as wide as twice the distance that the best enemy pusher can push, plus one. Then any character standing in the center that is threatened with being pushed over the edge has to be pushed twice, and has a chance to react in between pushes. Any character standing near the edge has taken their chances.

That's only a big deal with highly lethal terrain, of course.

 

[Wormwood]

I predict items granting feather fall will be the very popular in 4e.