Dead as a condition

[DreamChaser]

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4303273#post4303273

in the above thread at the Eberron boards, I realized that due to the power of rules lawyering, dead needs to be treated as a condition. There is implication of this in the glossary of the PH but they don't come right out and say it.

A creature has the dead condition when:
-> his or her hit points drop to -10 or lower
-> his or her Constitution drops to 0, or
-> exposed to certain spells or effects (such as failing a Fortitude save against massive damage)

The effects of the dead condition are
-> The character's soul leaves the body and journeys to an Outer Plane (unless destroyed by death magic).
-> The character is immoble, mindless, and helpless.
-> Dead creatures are treated as objects for the purposes of saving throws. Thus, they cannot make Reflex saves and are immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save unless that effect also effects objects.
-> Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic.
-> A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved.

What do you think? This doesn't really change anything just clarifies what it means to be dead in game terms and prevents some tap dancing around the rules that some of the current RAW allow (see the above thread and the similar one in this forum for examples).

DC

 

[Hypersmurf]

in the above thread at the Eberron boards, I realized that due to the power of rules lawyering, dead needs to be treated as a condition.

You know that "Dead" appears as a condition in the Condition Summary of the DMG, right?

Dead: The character’s hit points are reduced to –10, his Constitution drops to 0, or he is killed outright by a spell or effect. The character’s soul leaves his body. Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic. A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved, but magic that restores a dead character to life also restores the body either to full health or to its condition at the time of death (depending on the spell or device). Either way, resurrected characters need not worry about rigor mortis, decomposition, and other conditions that affect dead bodies.

Given what you've listed, it appears that you took your description of your proposed 'Dead' condition... from the wording of the existing 'Dead' condition.

I'm... sort of lost.

-Hyp.

 

[DreamChaser]

I did actually.

I had found it in the glossary of the PH but not in the DMG. I hadn't known it was actually a "condition" which is why I posted this.

Some would say that that makes no sense because you could still target a dead creature with charm person or something like that.

I don't see this as being a problem. What do y'all think?

DC

 

[Hypersmurf]

Some would say that that makes no sense because you could still target a dead creature with charm person or something like that.

Although with the FAQ quote terming dead creatures objects, that's in dispute.

-Hyp.

 

[DreamChaser]

of course, it would be odd for a condition to change a creature into an object. petrification would seem to do it but it doesn't. the petrified creature remains a creature. by this logic, so should a dead creature.

 

[Ottergame]

No, a dead creature becomes an object, so that spells that target creatures (such as sleep) aren't wasted by hitting dead things.

 

[HellHound]

This is making me need to go back to Portable Hole Full of Beer to check how the Dead Template was worded.

 

[Darklone]

Dead things aren't objects?

Damn. Planned to kill PCs with Enervation, put them in bag of holding and use them as reliable bodyguards next time!

 

[Egres]

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4303273#post4303273

in the above thread at the Eberron boards, I realized that due to the power of rules lawyering, dead needs to be treated as a condition. There is implication of this in the glossary of the PH but they don't come right out and say it.

A creature has the dead condition when:
-> his or her hit points drop to -10 or lower
-> his or her Constitution drops to 0, or
-> exposed to certain spells or effects (such as failing a Fortitude save against massive damage)

The effects of the dead condition are
-> The character's soul leaves the body and journeys to an Outer Plane (unless destroyed by death magic).
-> The character is immoble, mindless, and helpless.
-> Dead creatures are treated as objects for the purposes of saving throws. Thus, they cannot make Reflex saves and are immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save unless that effect also effects objects.
-> Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic.
-> A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved.

What do you think? This doesn't really change anything just clarifies what it means to be dead in game terms and prevents some tap dancing around the rules that some of the current RAW allow (see the above thread and the similar one in this forum for examples).

DC

Amnd what would be the Str score of a dead creature?

The SRD states:

Strength: Any creature that can physically manipulate other objects has at least 1 point of Strength.

Does a dead creature have a Str score higher than 0?

Does it have the ability to manipulate other objects?

 

[Pielorinho]

Hmph. So this means you could target a door made of treant-wood with a magic missile (since the treant-wood is a dead creature), but not a door made of oak-wood with a magic missile (since oak trees are not technically creatures)?

Silliness.
Daniel