Dead in one blow

[Lord Zardoz]

Despite all the number crunched math that generally puts Threat 19 / x2 crits as having a better overall damage output then Threat 20 / x3 crits, this sort of thing is why the x3 Crit weapons are balanced against them.

A x3 Critical hit will typically either kill or scare the crap out of whoever manages to eat the critical hit. They can more dramatically alter the out come of a fight, especially when Power Attacks and Str Bonuses are factored in. Any opponent with a high str modifier also has a great chance to confirm its critical due to the bonus to hit. In this particular case, Minotaurs use big axes, doing 3d6 damage, which further magnifies the pain.

The reason that this gets to the players so much is aside from its general rarity, a x3 Crit is often going to put the player below -10 at a point when they would otherwise expect to keep standing. Assuming a Str of about 22, consider the difference in damage:

Normal hit with Large GreatAxe: 3d6+9. Max 27 damage, average 19, min 12
Critical Hit with Large Great Axe: 9d6+27. Max 81 damage, average 58.5, min 36

Just scary.

Anyway, you are not a bad DM. Plenty of players throw together 20 Str Half Orc Barbarians, and score criticals themselves from time to time. Balancing a fight with such combatants is difficult because their damage output vastly outpaces their staying power. In this instance, the dice fell your way. It happens.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[IanB]

x3 crits are definitely what I would call high variance.

A couple weeks ago in my AoWorms session, a half-orc barbarian killed two PCs in two rounds with back to back crits. It happens. While it was happening, the party scout dropped two of the barbarian's friends with back to back x3 crits from a longbow, so I figured it was all fair.

 

[mmu1]

This is actually a textbook example of the problem that occurs when you give a Large creature with high Strength a Large two-handed weapon, which gives it the ability to deal enoromous amounts of damage that is not covered by CR in any way.

That, and how CRs for zombies are worked out is, pardon the pun, brain-dead. The CR is based strictly on the number of hit dice, with no allowance made for the creature's stats.

Which isn't to say that something similar to what you describe couldn't have happend with an orc barbarian wielding a medium-sized greataxe, or any number of ordinary enemy NPCs, but the encounter was probably under-CRed and it made this sort of massive crit more likely and more lethal than it'd have otherwise been.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

In 30 years of gaming, I've had several PCs one-shotted, including

- a 2Ed Gnome Artificer who got overwhelmed by a group of flunkies...

- a 2Ed Player's Option Cleric who was on the wrong side of a Skeleton with a 2hd sword and a maxed out critical

- a 3Ed 1/2Orc Bounty Hunter (Ranger) who blasted through a door only to find a narrow passageway next to a chasm...and he rolled a 2 on the Dex check to grab the rope bridge, so he took Gravity's elevator on a 1 way trip down.

- In Original Traveller, I even had a PC die during the character generation process.

OTOH, the last campaign I ran, the BBEG was accosted by the PCs in a public market, where they attacked him with full surprise, he rolled a 1 for initiative (his men-at-arms rolled 3s), and he even failed a save vs massive damage. In 2 rounds, he was down and the party's druid had changed the party into a flock of ravens- completely unscathed.

One-shots & sudden deaths are a (rare) part of the game.

 

[LostSoul]

I wrote a house rule that makes death nontrivial, but it takes power away from the rules and the DM. They're the "Raising the Stakes" link off the wiki in my sig.

I think those rules are very cool, but... when I play D&D, I consider the Death Flag raised all the time. I know I could take a crit to the balls and lose my PC, but oh well. That's part of D&D.

I think I like the randomness. Then it's up to me, as a player, to reduce the randomness as much as I can, making it work in my favour.

 

[Drowbane]

"Crit Happens." "Let the dice fall as they may."

If the above two phrases are not in play, I don't want anything to do with that campaign.

 

[Korgoth]

"Crit Happens." "Let the dice fall as they may."

If the above two phrases are not in play, I don't want anything to do with that campaign.

Those were exactly the two phrases I was going to throw out after I finished reading the thread.

Kudos to the DM for not backing down. At its heart, D&D is a game. Sometimes the Scottie Dog lands on Park Place, then rolls a "2" and hits Boardwalk, both with hotels. Bye bye Scottie Dog.

Plus, it is usually a deliberate choice to remain in melee against a large zombie with a 2-H axe. It's a calculated risk. Adventuring is a dangerous occupation. That's why they make the big bucks, get magical swag and eventually (if both lucky and smart) build a Fortress of Virilitude showing how cool they are. If it was a safe occupation, who would stay at home and be a peasant?

 

[shilsen]

I can't remeber if it was Shil or someone else on these boards who once posted an idea which I copied to salvage this sort of situation. I used it in my game like this; in a situation where a PC suffers a blow which would knock his HP total to -10 or below I instead deduct his remaining action points and leave the PC stabilized at -9 and out for the remainder of the combat. I don't quite recall if the original poster took as many action points or if he had a standard charge for it but this rule has worked well for me (kudos to him). Of course if you don't use APs then this isn't particularly relevant to your situation I suppose.

Yes, that's the rule I use and I've posted it a few times here on ENWorld. Glad to know it's working well for you. I used to take three action pts or swashbuckling cards, and now two.

Incidentally, I know people use variations thereof even without action pts (e.g. PC is out of the fight and can be healed up afterwards but takes -1 to everything for a week).

 

[Phlebas]

..........
Kudos to the DM for not backing down. At its heart, D&D is a game. Sometimes the Scottie Dog lands on Park Place, then rolls a "2" and hits Boardwalk, both with hotels. Bye bye Scottie Dog.
..........

The DM does open table rolls - and asked me to witness the 19 rolled to confirm the 20 critical as the die was a bit old and faded. He asked the player how many hit points he had left before rolling the damage dice, but the player wouldn't say to avoid fudging.

The DM in question (not me) lost his own character a few months back in the cauldron game i also play in (with no complaints). Its not that we particularly enjoy killer games, just that occasionally worse case happens.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I don't like damage multipliers for crits, for a couple of reasons. One is the crazy-high damage that's possible. The other is that sometimes you get a crit and then roll really crappy damage.

I prefer "crits do maximum (normal) damage." So if you normally do 1-6 points, a critical does 6 points: it was your "best shot." You're not outside the normal range of damage, it was just a really good hit. A critical failure allows one free attack from your enemy, or "something bad" at the DM's option (e.g. drop your weapon, et cetera).

(Actually, one could argue that "critical hits" shouldn't be based on the "to hit" roll at all, because what *really* determines how good you did is your damage roll. Thus, critical hits should be damage-roll based. So if it's 1-6, then a 6 is a critical hit. "Exploding dice" could also be used in this kind of concept, but it would work best if there was a standard 'damage die' type, rather than variable types -- otherwise the chance to 'explode' could vary a lot.)