Dead Levels

[Remathilis]

I didn't see any discussion on this, but I want to know peoples opinions:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a

Basically, it plugs the "dead level" issue in the core classes with flavorful abilities. However, I'm still not totally sold, since the biggest prc offenders are cleric, wizard and sorcerer, who still don't give up much to get all sorts of goodies from loremaster or sacred exorcist.

Thoughts? Too good, too weak, or perfect?

 

[Crothian]

I didn't see any discussion on this

There is this

 

[Remathilis]

There is this

Nonononononono DEAD CLASS LEVELS not DEAD AT FIRST LEVEL....

Silly Crothian...

 

[Dracorat]

I like the article =)

 

[delericho]

Nonononononono DEAD CLASS LEVELS not DEAD AT FIRST LEVEL....

Silly Crothian...

Perhaps he meant this ?

 

[el-remmen]

There are no dead levels, only dead imaginations.

Now prestige classes are a different case - for them I believe in a new ability or significant increase at an ability they gain over any others at each level - but then again, few of the prestige classes I have come up with are only 3 to 6 levels for the most part (don't really use any of the optional ones from the DMG or the 3.0 splatbooks and I own none of books with more recent ones) - just enough to emphasize the "prestige".

 

[Crothian]

Nonononononono DEAD CLASS LEVELS not DEAD AT FIRST LEVEL....

Silly Crothian...

I typed the wrong thread number, but I fixed it

 

[Wik]

Well, I dunno. The idea is sort of neat, but it's disconcerting to keep seeing wotc work against their own products. When you see a write-up on the wotc website that says:

As a way to help characters stay more focused on their primary class, rather than grabbing the latest prestige class to see print,

I mean..."Wait... it's BAD to take a prestige class? Then why am I buying all your products?"

As for the actual levels, it seems like a dumb thing. What I mean is, it doesn't really do anything for the players.

SITUATION 1 (AS IT CURRENTLY IS)

Player: "hm, I can either take a level in ranger and get... uh, nothing.... or I can take a level in ultimatehappyfun prestige class, and get the ability to make the DM wear his underwear as a hat..."

SITUATION 2 (WITH THESE NEW DEAD CLASS LEVELS)

Player: "hm, I can either take a level in ranger and get.... the ability to talk to busy-tailed squirrels with a successful survival check.... or I can take a level in ultimatehappyfun prestige class, and make the DM wear his underwear as a hat...."

***

I just don't see any player really being swayed by these minor class abilities that the designer make a big point out of saying "look, they don't really do anything". The only way to prevent a character from not taking a "dead level" (assuming they're of the sort that wants something fun every class level), is to add powerful abilities to the mix. And, well, that's just broken.

 

[DarkKestral]

I mean..."Wait... it's BAD to take a prestige class? Then why am I buying all your products?"

As for the actual levels, it seems like a dumb thing. What I mean is, it doesn't really do anything for the players.

I believe the intent is "players shouldn't gain PrCs because they have levels coming up that offer no special abilities and would therefore make gaining the PrC a gain in power without any real cost."

PrCs, as far as I can tell, are meant to be strictly more powerful at a specific aspect of things than the base class, but are meant to be costly, in that they restrict character growth in the things the base class gets. However, for some builds, they are strictly a power gain, (for one build I did, a Wiz 15/Loremaster 5.. I was already planning to have him take the pre-requisites. As result, the build was far more powerful, because I used my options to gain back the bonus feat I had 'given up', while gaining 2 more special abilities) because they give special abilities at a far faster rate than many of the base classes. The idea is to avoid that, by giving each class some special ability that fills in the dead levels, and makes multiclassing an actual choice, rather than an obvious powerboost without real downsides.

 

[Wik]

I get that, but really, these "abilities" are pretty much useless (the developer's notes say as much, don't they?). So, the logic there is wrong; nothing's really changed.