Dealing with paranoid players

[Elf Witch]

I have mentioned before my roommate is also DMing a game I play in. After the last session she didn't really want to talk about the game. And today while doing prep for the next session she suddenly tossed the adventure path away and said "I don't think I want to do this anymore".

She is very frustrated with the play styles of two of the players and she feels it is sucking the fun out of the game for her.

These two players play the game in a very paranoid manner. I have to admit I often end up grinding my teeth over some of this issue myself.

They have gone beyond being careful into the realm of absurd.

Here a just a couple of examples.

We knew that the bad guys who wanted us dead hung out at a bar at the very busy wharf. I came up with a plan to investigate and get the lay of the land by utilizing alter self potions so we didn't look like the group they were looking for.

I also picked a time when the docks would be busy with a lot of people about. They refused to do it they were worried that since alter self is magical any one able to detect magic would know. I played the wizard and rolled very high on my spellcraft roll. I told them that since we all carried magic items it would be just one more aura mixed in with many. I also pointed out that most people in the city have one or two small magical items so it not unusual for people to have a magical aura. There next argument what if the bad guys had a gem of true seeing then we would be exposed or what if they had been scying on the party.

So instead of us the adventures going down and investigating and maybe getting some XP they voted to hire a member of the thieves guild to scout for us. None of us were members of the thieves guild and we had to pay a pretty penny for what in the end amounted to bad information that almost got us killed. I did point out that there was evidence that the bad guys were in the thieves guild.

They have done this many times run away from things or refused to do something because it might be above our level.

This has cost us XP and treasure so the DM is always scrambling with a way to make it up.

The last session I think is what broke the camel's back for her. We had been in the city games at the arena as a cover to investigate things going on under it in the tunnels. We had finished up and we split up two of us to go talk to the wizard and the person who sponsored us in the games. The other two to take counsel at the temple to St Cuthbert.

When I and one of the paranoid players got to the wizard house there was no answer when we knocked and the door was unlocked. I opened it and the smell of death hit us. So of course paranoid player wanted nothing to do with it and refused to go in with me or got get the city guard.

I went alone found the wizard his servants and our sponsor murdered. The place had been ransacked. I did a search and found hidden in the wallpaper design a coded symbol my guild uses to communicate. I found a hidden compartment with very vital clues of what was going on.

I came out and hired a boy off the street to fetch the guard. About this time the other two players come up. When the paranoid player of that set heard I had summoned the guard he went nuts. He was raving that they were going to throw us in jail blah blah. No matter that the fact the victims had been dead at least 24 hours and at the time of the death we were at the arena in front of thousands of people.

He insisted we leave. The other paranoid player agreed but the paladin and I dug our heels in and we stayed. They left us.

The guards came took our statements asked if we had any clue of why this happened and then let us go. They treated both myself and the paladin with the up most respect.

Now we had some unfinished business in town like waiting for some magic items we had commissioned. Giving the churches and the King information on what we found. We are working for the King and the temples of St Cuthbert and Heirneous.

Instead of staying the other two insisted we leave the city right then and there without the items , without telling the King or the temples. They are convinced it would be suicide to stay because the bad guys took out a powerful wizard. And we are no match for them even though we are tenth level and there is no evidence that the wizard in question was super high level. I found his spell book in the wall safe and didn't have any spells over fourth in it.

So not to split the party we gave in and went. So now we are going across country without our magic items and we didn't stop and properly provision ourselves for this.

The DM has confided in me that at this point she is just tired of pulling punches because of stupid behavior like this. That she doesn't want to jump through hoops to make it okay. That we have left both king and church in the lurch with no clue at what is going on for all they know we are either dead or have gone bad. We don't have enough food for this trip. And some of us don't have all our items the paladin for example was not wearing his plate armor and they wouldn't wait for him to go and get it.

The DM is not a killer DM she does not go out of the way to 'get" the PCs. So I don't get where all this paranoia comes from.

But I get why she is frustrated because I am often frustrated too. I understand the concept of smart planning but I don't get the concept of worrying what level everything is or worrying that the bad guys might have abilities that can hurts us. We are supposed to be adventurers ours is a dangerous way of life.

The game is not until Sunday so I advised her to try and talk to the other players. I also thought maybe she should take a break for DMing.

 

[Hussar]

Sounds like the players are bringing baggage from older games into this game.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Sounds like they have been burned by social/urban encounters in the past.

Maybe they play non-nuanced dungeon crawling without as much reservations.

 

[Elf Witch]

Sounds like they have been burned by social/urban encounters in the past.

Maybe they play non-nuanced dungeon crawling without as much reservations.

They are just as paranoid in the dungeons as well. We are playing Age of Worms and we have done our share of dungeons though even that is like pulling teeth.

The very first part of the game deals with the Whispering Cairn and it was almost impossible to get them to go in. There is a rival adventuring group in the path that you meet. They became so scared of this group. They convinced themselves that this group was so much higher than us that we shouldn't get in there way.

We never did do all the encounters in the Cairn and lost out on some major treasure because of it.

I am not sure how she is supposed to DM them. How does she challenge us if she has such fearful players?

 

[NewJeffCT]

So not to split the party we gave in and went. So now we are going across country without our magic items and we didn't stop and properly provision ourselves for this.

The DM has confided in me that at this point she is just tired of pulling punches because of stupid behavior like this. That she doesn't want to jump through hoops to make it okay. That we have left both king and church in the lurch with no clue at what is going on for all they know we are either dead or have gone bad. We don't have enough food for this trip. And some of us don't have all our items the paladin for example was not wearing his plate armor and they wouldn't wait for him to go and get it.

Yes, these players are definitely paranoid. One incident, I can understand some caution - but, insisting the paladin leave without his armor? If it was a wizard, would they insist he or she leave without his spell book? The party leave without some magic items?

I think that level of paranoia is also somewhat meta-gamey because they're probably bringing past gaming experiences to their characters and infecting the game with it. Has the DM been playing "gotcha" all along since the players were level 1? If not, I would have her sit down with the paranoid players and tell them that she is not out to get them and she is not always going to stab them in the back every chance she gets.

If she doesn't want to go that far, I might have her give them a few rolls at the table for intelligence or wisdom checks: "Hey Bob, the wizard that was just slaughtered had a spellbook that has only level 1-4 spells, and his four dead bodyguards had short swords and leather armor, and seem young and clean shaven (i.e., inexperienced/low level)." Or, "leaving the king in the lurch like that can really hurt the reputations of not just yourself, but also the rest of your party. I'm sure the paladin would not want the king to put in a bad word on his behalf down at his church saying how he bailed on his promise to him." Sometimes, the DM adding her voice to the mix adds a bit more emphasis than just fellow players saying it.

On the plus side, at least they care for their characters.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

This page might be helpful advice: Notes from the Bunker: Oh, We Don?t Go There!

 

[jefgorbach]

Suggest you/she take time when the next session starts to discuss WHY the other two are so paranoid, explaining you and the GM neither enjoy nor expect the level of caution they are exhibiting so their over-cautiousness is unduly punishing the group by avoiding situations which were supposed to provided needed clues/treasure, unnecessarily leaving purchased gear/supplies behind, and other pointless gestures .... actions which she has been actively ignored and adjusting for until now. Continued stupidity WILL incur the corresponding consequences henchforth and quite likely result in numerous character deaths.

 

[Elf Witch]

Yes, these players are definitely paranoid. One incident, I can understand some caution - but, insisting the paladin leave without his armor? If it was a wizard, would they insist he or she leave without his spell book? The party leave without some magic items?

I think that level of paranoia is also somewhat meta-gamey because they're probably bringing past gaming experiences to their characters and infecting the game with it. Has the DM been playing "gotcha" all along since the players were level 1? If not, I would have her sit down with the paranoid players and tell them that she is not out to get them and she is not always going to stab them in the back every chance she gets.

If she doesn't want to go that far, I might have her give them a few rolls at the table for intelligence or wisdom checks: "Hey Bob, the wizard that was just slaughtered had a spellbook that has only level 1-4 spells, and his four dead bodyguards had short swords and leather armor, and seem young and clean shaven (i.e., inexperienced/low level)." Or, "leaving the king in the lurch like that can really hurt the reputations of not just yourself, but also the rest of your party. I'm sure the paladin would not want the king to put in a bad word on his behalf down at his church saying how he bailed on his promise to him." Sometimes, the DM adding her voice to the mix adds a bit more emphasis than just fellow players saying it.

On the plus side, at least they care for their characters.

We have been playing Age of Worms which is known as being a meat grinder, we are level 10 we have only had one PC death. The DM is not out to get the PCs. She does not go out of her way to punish players. For example say you forget something your player would do like put his dodge on the person attacking him. She will ask do you want your dodge on him.

Yes if you do something really dumb it will bite you on the butt like hiring a thieves guild member to gather info when you suspect that the BBEG is a member in good standing.

Both of them have been players for years and they also play Shadowrun which I think is a big part of the issue. In Shadowrun you have to be paranoid there is no magical healing and death is permanent. And in the game you are going up against huge megacorps who can crush you like a bug if you screw up.

DnD is not like that. With magical healing and ways to conquer death it is not as gritty. While I appreciate caution when we play Shadowrun all it does in DnD is bog the game down.

 

[Oryan77]

I'm surprised that you guys caved in to these two so easily. I would never have expected a player to let their PC leave without their magic items they paid for and their armor or gear. Wow.

Why did you do that?

It sounds like you are letting them have their way and doing that just encourages them to be paranoid.

Why wouldn't your PC tell them to suck it up and stop being cowards? Obviously that is what you are thinking, so why wouldn't your PC be thinking the same thing?

I'm sure you don't mean to, but you're contributing to the DMs frustration by allowing them to push and pull your PC in their paranoid direction.

Maybe you should tell them that this is bothersome. You can tell them that you either won't play if this continues (which is what will happen if the DM quits), or if they do this, then they will have nothing to do the entire game while you and the other player adventure.

You could even ask the DM if she would be able to adjust encounters for times when it would be just you & the other player; in case the 2 paranoid players hide in the closet while you do recon in taverns and such.

 

[Gilladian]

My solution would be similar to Oryan's but I'd go a step further. Make up (or have the DM make up) a few NPC characters that will fill in the gaps of the party that the two players are leaving when they refuse to do something.

Then, every time they won't do something they should agree to do, or which you and the other player WANT to do, just have the NPCs go along. Let the paranoid players sit out. Have your character and the paladin commiserate with them about their fears, and then go have fun. Leave them sitting. When they complain, explain that you thought they were playing the way they wanted to play. You're adventurers, they're scared wanna-be's. And that's how it will be from now on.