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Dealing with spellcasters as a martial

Erechel

Explorer
Both from a DM's and a player's perspective, dealing with spellcasters is difficult. This difficulty don't reside on raw power, but instead on their flexibility. One never can be too prepared to them: Have you achieved somehow Fire resistance? The wizard hits you with a ligthing bolt. High Dex saves? Hold Person. Etc.

Nevertheless, spellcasters in 5e are limited in three main ways: Spell slots, Concentration and action economy. The last two of them are intrinsecally linked: if you have concentration, you can't prepare a lot and break Action Economy with pre-battle buffs. At best, as a wizard you can have two pre-battle buffs (mage armor, and any Conc. buff), and you need to expend the slots. Furthermore, many concentration buffs have very short durations, so you need to cast them as close to combat as you can. A 1 minute spell, like Haste, will pass shortly after being cast.

As a player, I 've being dealing with casters since level 1. Priests, mages and hobgoblin Devastators are enemies with I've being dealing with. I have a big advantage: I'm a Strength fighter, human, with the Shieldmaster feat. This allowed me to improve my action economy. Furthermore, any effect that allows me to pass a Dex saving throw to halve my damage, I receive no damage instead as a reaction (and if said effect is directed against me only, it allows me to add the Shield bonus to my DST). But the main factor is the action economy: knocking prone spellcasters as a bonus action is incredibly useful. I use the following tactic: knock, grapple, choke. Choke isn't an action described on any manual, but it could be considered both as an attack and as a grapple. Succesfuly choking someone should silence and suffocate it, doing minimal (disarmed) damage. My DM usually considers it as a grapple at disadvantage (as it is more specific).

Other ways of disabling casters may be:

1) Heavy smoke: heavily obscures an area, so impedes casters to make targets or choose the point in which cast their targets. Also, it can provoke suffocation, thus "silence" creatures inside the area.
2) Sand in the eyes: Blinded condition doesn't allow to see, so any spell that requires to see the target can't.
3) Disarm: Any spell that requires material components and any caster with a Spellcasting focus such as a staff could be disarmed. That renders many powerful spells useless.
4) Kill them with lots of damage before they cast. Obviously.

Thougts? Ideas?
 

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neogod22

Explorer
Out of fairness, I wouldn't allow, things like "choking" to be able to stop spell casting, just like grapple and pin doesn't stop the pinned person from attacking. I have no problem with using things like smoke to obstruct the caster's vision, because it obstructs your vision too. Of course the caster could always target the fireball right in the cloud and still get you, and you can always target the last square you've seen someone in. The best methods are, either let another caster deal with them, or move in,and try and kill them,before they kill you.
 

MechaPilot

Explorer
Both from a DM's and a player's perspective, dealing with spellcasters is difficult. This difficulty don't reside on raw power, but instead on their flexibility. One never can be too prepared to them: Have you achieved somehow Fire resistance? The wizard hits you with a ligthing bolt. High Dex saves? Hold Person. Etc.

Nevertheless, spellcasters in 5e are limited in three main ways: Spell slots, Concentration and action economy.

There is a fourth constraint: spell preparation. You may know fireball and lightning bolt, but if you haven't prepared them both then you don't get your pick against a fire-resistant foe.
 

Erechel

Explorer
Out of fairness, I wouldn't allow, things like "choking" to be able to stop spell casting, just like grapple and pin doesn't stop the pinned person from attacking. I have no problem with using things like smoke to obstruct the caster's vision, because it obstructs your vision too. Of course the caster could always target the fireball right in the cloud and still get you, and you can always target the last square you've seen someone in. The best methods are, either let another caster deal with them, or move in,and try and kill them,before they kill you.
Things like choking should be allowed as improvisation, always giving the possibility of the caster to escape. It is really unfair that a fighter that could stand being stabbed and heal in a sleep couldn't do something that I could and, in fact, is a staple in many many real world fights. Not allowing at least an attempt it is actually against the rules.
 

neogod22

Explorer
Things like choking should be allowed as improvisation, always giving the possibility of the caster to escape. It is really unfair that a fighter that could stand being stabbed and heal in a sleep couldn't do something that I could and, in fact, is a staple in many many real world fights. Not allowing at least an attempt it is actually against the rules.
Ok let's look at this how you're suggesting. A fighter with multi-attack gets to a wizard, and says "I want to grapple him, then restrain him by choking him so he can't cast spells." So now the wizard is grappled and restrained, and can't cast spells, what means of escape does he have? Attempt to beat the grapple by beating the fighters STR while he has disadvantage? Cast a spell,wait a min, can't do that because he's being choked. It becomes a no win situation. I would make,choking as an unarmed attack. You can do damage, but you can't prevent casting.
 

TheSword

Legend
Things like choking should be allowed as improvisation, always giving the possibility of the caster to escape. It is really unfair that a fighter that could stand being stabbed and heal in a sleep couldn't do something that I could and, in fact, is a staple in many many real world fights. Not allowing at least an attempt it is actually against the rules.

You’re not Homer Simpson and the spellcaster isnt Bart... why you little...

I’d be happy to let your choking attempt have a chance at breaking concentration but I wouldn’t allow you to stop someone spellcasting. After all they just have to mutter the words through clenched teeth. The grappling rules are pretty clear, they prevent movement. Not spellcasting. If you can restrain them then again it doesn’t prevent spellcasting... just disadvantage on spells that use attack rolls.

I might be happy to say instead of restraining someone you can instead cover their mouth with your hand in which case if you’re successful they would be unable to speak. Though this would be instead of the benefits of restrained. It would take two Hands and the attacker would count as restrained themselves.
 

5ekyu

Hero
Things like choking should be allowed as improvisation, always giving the possibility of the caster to escape. It is really unfair that a fighter that could stand being stabbed and heal in a sleep couldn't do something that I could and, in fact, is a staple in many many real world fights. Not allowing at least an attempt it is actually against the rules.
Then the wizard improvs gouging out the fighter eyes and we have a blinded until regen fight choking out a spell-less wizard... Epic at its best.
 

Erechel

Explorer
Ok let's look at this how you're suggesting. A fighter with multi-attack gets to a wizard, and says "I want to grapple him, then restrain him by choking him so he can't cast spells." So now the wizard is grappled and restrained, and can't cast spells, what means of escape does he have? Attempt to beat the grapple by beating the fighters STR while he has disadvantage? Cast a spell,wait a min, can't do that because he's being choked. It becomes a no win situation. I would make,choking as an unarmed attack. You can do damage, but you can't prevent casting.
Choking could be like grapple, but with disadvantage. Also, you are a sucky wizard if you allow a fighter come that close. And yes, it is supposed to disable a wizard: you don't want him to cast. Look it the other way around: you are a wizard, you charm a fighter with a suggestion: what could he do? Try to pass a Wisdom Saving Throw? You aren't even stopped to do anything else: you can still use your spell slots to deal damage to everyone elser cast cantrips. If you are grappling someone, also, they can escape via Acrobatics. And you are not dealing any damage with said hand. A greatsword or a bow will be useless in a grapple situation, so as a two weapon fighter, or even a shield. Your speed is also halved, and you need to keep the choke every round. If you fail (say, a 1 in the opposing check) the wizard escapes. It isn't an unescapable situation, nor one without consequences for the fighter
 

Erechel

Explorer
Also, I never said that the wizard is restraint. Only that it is silenced, and grappled (with disadvantage). They still may make a weapon attack (with a dagger, for example). Knocking someone could grant disadvantage to the attacks, but needs another attack. So, another attack that you don't make.
 

neogod22

Explorer
Also, I never said that the wizard is restraint. Only that it is silenced, and grappled (with disadvantage). They still may make a weapon attack (with a dagger, for example). Knocking someone could grant disadvantage to the attacks, but needs another attack. So, another attack that you don't make.
Grapple doesn't grant disadvantage, only reduces movement to 0. Restrained grants disadvantage. Also your example doesn't help your case for game balancing. Also when we are talking about spellcasters, wizards aren't the only ones. Most casters have a limited number of spells they can learn, so a lot might not have the defense that wizards might have.
 

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