Dear bloody god: Calystrx (Threats to Nentir Vale Preview)

[Kerranin]

My Hybrid Swordmage is going to cry himself to sleep at night, though.

That's the price you pay for hybridizing, you shouldn't be as good a swordmage.

 

[Aegeri]

It's been this way since Monster Manual 3 actually. Solos have sufficient bite they are absolutely terrifying to anyone, even a reasonably optimized party.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I always find it funny that at the same time we get post after post of people complaining that 4E isn't exciting or is too monotonous or doesn't surprise us... we get people complaining that it also doesn't follow the same rigid, precise formula each and every time for each and every game element.

We're stringently Lawful when it comes to reading rulebooks... but turn exceedingly Chaotic once we're actually playing the game.

 

[Riastlin]

I'm not. My limited experience suggests that some of the MM3 changes put monster math beyond the bounds of safety for casual players. If Calastryx is some sort of indication of the new default, then I fear casual players will be completely unable to keep up with the monster math.

While I understand your fears here, I also think that this is the sort of thing that has always fallen under the burden of the DM. The DM needs to adjust things to make them entertaining for his particular party. You can take two different parties, run them through the exact same adventure and have two entirely different results. The DM needs to be able to adapt to his particular group's style and ability.

Now I realize that this will be more difficult for a casual group, but at the same time, casual groups are also, in my experience, more likely to handwave, fudge, and simply not use the best tactics for their monsters, so to an extent, it does kind of even out.

All that being said, I'm not entirely convinced myself that the standard HP formula for monsters needs to be adjusted for my current group based on our experiences. However, I do think that there should be some room for adjusting for the big fights. If anyone deserves a HP and/or defense boost it would be a three headed red dragon of awesomeness. As I said above, I may well turn her into a recurring villain (assuming the party cannot stymie my plans) and villains like that should, in my opinion, occasionally break the "rules" of monster design -- its what makes them exciting.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Despite your mysterious answer of NDA (WHATEVER COULD THAT MEAN?)

NDA = Non Disclosure Agreement - though perhaps you meant that such a statement doesn't really answer the question (which was kind of Mr. James' point )

 

[keterys]

Actually, could be very interesting if they're changing solo math so that it follows Role - it will make brutes probably a _lot_ better than artillery/lurkers, and they mostly already were, since the attack penalty was removed.

 

[Riastlin]

NDA = Non Disclosure Agreement - though perhaps you meant that such a statement doesn't really answer the question (which was kind of Mr. James' point )

Heh, pretty sure he knows what NDA means and that he was being a bit tongue in cheek there as the reference to the NDA could be interpreted as an implication that there is something new rules-wise coming out in the new book. Or in other words, if it were just a mistake or just done intentionally but not indicative in a design philosophy shift, the question could have been answered with "Ooops" or "Yeah, we did that intentionally".

Of course, it could also be that rather than talk about all of the decisions, Mr. James is just sticking to the NDA so as to protect himself and help ensure that he can continue to get freelance gigs with WotC.

 

[Talaeden_Denthiir]

Sorry it took so long for me to get back... I just don't have a lot of free time on my hands right now. That being said. I was in no way shape or form knocking Brian R. James, his much better looking brother Matt James, Mike Mearls, or any of the other Designers. No offense Hershel, but you read to much negativity in an otherwise not very negative post.

Where does "Thank you for your help" and "That's why I like Cal... Was this intentional, due to the fact that she has multiple heads?" = me being negative?!

Heck, I'm not even giving criticism, constructive or otherwise; I'm just asking a question.

I even give the benefit of the doubt by assuming the extra HP were intentional, and judging by Brian R. James' reply, they are

Not to mention i preordered the book from my FLGS instead of getting close to 50% off at Borders.com

Just trying to get a feel for the monster design so i can create a level 21 version LOL.

Speaking of which, do u guys and gals recommend a level 21 solo for a party of 7 level 21 or higher?


now that the negativity imposed by Hershel (yes u offended me by jumping to those conclusions, as I've come to expect better from ur otherwise fair and insightful posts) is out of the way...

Riastlin,

Wow, never knew Reavers of Harkenwold was that tough. i've read through it and love Rich Baker's work and wanted so bad to run it but maybe after my players take on Orcus at level 30 and start new characters Or maybe after the TPK of Cal mwuahahaha

What level are you making Cal and can u give anymore info on what seems to be a sweet campaign u have cooked up? I really like the idea of the recurring villian. Especially a multipl headed one ith overland flight !

~Teo

 

[Nullzone]

Fight will potentially be really mundane if it's just the solo against the 7 of them, even if it's an exciting solo like this one. Spruce it up with some terrain effects (preferably ones that work in tandem with your solo's "gimmick") or minion hordes (and I mean that literally -- HORDES, not just 4-8) and it should be a lot more entertaining.

 

[Riastlin]

Riastlin,

Wow, never knew Reavers of Harkenwold was that tough. i've read through it and love Rich Baker's work and wanted so bad to run it but maybe after my players take on Orcus at level 30 and start new characters Or maybe after the TPK of Cal mwuahahaha

What level are you making Cal and can u give anymore info on what seems to be a sweet campaign u have cooked up? I really like the idea of the recurring villian. Especially a multipl headed one ith overland flight !

~Teo

******* Spoiler Alert *******

To be fair, there were a few factors that lead to this being as tough as it was for our group. For starters, we botched the skill challenge near the end and so had to fight our way through the keep. Secondly, my rune priest is the main healer, which is to say, we don't have a very good main healer (though Shield the Fallen is awesome for a runepriest). This, more than anything, is probably what lead to the depletion of our surges as there just wasn't anything to boost our surge values so to speak (runepriests don't get bonus HP to their encounter heal until level 6). Finally, our group doesn't always use the most optimal tactics, preferring the choice yields the most smiles/laughs etc. over a "just better, but not as amusing" option. (My runepriest is currently out-damaging the ranger for instance).

All that being said, it was still a great adventure. We really didn't do a great job in working through it and as a result struggled mightily at the end (which we should have in my opinion). A group with a little bit more luck, and slightly better tactics/options should definitely be able to get through it without too much trouble -- though all the monsters to my knowledge, use the new damage values, so there'll always be a risk should the dice go cold.

As for my campaign, I'm not sure when I'll use Cal. The party is currently level 12 and in the Shadowfell (not the most logical place to find Cal). The current plot has several options for where they can go next so I'm pretty much going to wait for them to go somewhere that it would make sense for Cal to appear and adjust her initial level accordingly.

As for the campaign in general, the basic premise is that an extremely powerful primordial is starting to awaken. During the Dawn War, it took 6 gods acting together and wielding a powerful artifact to defeat the primordial but even then they could not kill it, merely imprison its heart. Now the seals protecting the heart are breaking as someone is trying to free the heart which can then be used either a) to awaken the primordial or b) as a powerful weapon in its own right.

That's the Cliff's Notes version but I don't want to derail the thread too much. I've been toying with the idea of starting up a DM commentary thread for the campaign but not sure if it would a) generate enough interest and b) be able to be updated regularly enough to remain interesting. Will see though. My thoughts for Cal are to not necessarily make her part of any of the factions, but rather just a recurring nemesis that pops up every now and then (think Q from TNG). Of course, if she becomes powerful enough, then she can definitely become a major player in the campaign one way or another, maybe seeking the Heart for her own use, or playing a major role in one of the factions, etc. Not entirely sure yet.