Death and 0 Max HP

dnd4vr

Adventurer
300 gp is six pounds of gold, worth over $137,000 US by today’s prices. I wouldn’t exactly call that chump change, although it does seem like a bargain for bringing back a fallen comrade.
While it is a lot in "today's market", when you consider a starting character averages, what 80-100 gp, to equip themselves, 300 gp really isn't the much for most games IME. It would be interesting to play a game where gold really WAS valuable and silver or copper was the typical coin.

I suppose even in our game, it is a nice hefty sum the way the DM explains it. He equates 1 cp = $1 USD. So, 300 gp would be $30,000. But some of our characters, who haven't had to spend a lot of coin really, have saved 4000-5000 gp worth of treasure at this point (about level 9).

I actually think your party may have had more interesting logistical issues to deal with if your companion had been brought back with a 0 hit point maximum than you did having to transport her corpse. Keeping the copper pieces on her eyes sounds like a bit of a challenge, but if she were alive, you’d have to be careful about causing any damage, or she’d die instantly, but I guess at that point you could just cast revivify again, so I kind of see what you mean.
Some of it will be a bit of a challenge, we have to fin out when the next session starts. But, yeah, casting Revivify again and again makes things too easy in 5E IMO. But hey, tables differ.
 

WaterRabbit

Villager
While it is a lot in "today's market", when you consider a starting character averages, what 80-100 gp, to equip themselves, 300 gp really isn't the much for most games IME. It would be interesting to play a game where gold really WAS valuable and silver or copper was the typical coin.

I suppose even in our game, it is a nice hefty sum the way the DM explains it. He equates 1 cp = $1 USD. So, 300 gp would be $30,000. But some of our characters, who haven't had to spend a lot of coin really, have saved 4000-5000 gp worth of treasure at this point (about level 9).



Some of it will be a bit of a challenge, we have to fin out when the next session starts. But, yeah, casting Revivify again and again makes things too easy in 5E IMO. But hey, tables differ.
The price isn't the only limiting factor -- finding 300 gp of diamonds can also be a challenge. In a CoS campaign they are virtually non-existent. In a city like Waterdeep, one can probably find that many diamonds on a regular basis, but in smaller towns finding any diamonds could be a challenge much less 300 gp worth.

For people that make 1 sp / day in wages, this amount is simply out of reach. Because of this merchants, unless they cater to the ultra-wealthy, probably don't have this on hand in most places.
 

Sword of Spirit

Adventurer
You know what has always bugged me about 300gp worth of diamonds, or 10,000gp worth of diamond dust? What happens if you walk into a country that has a diamond mine and diamonds are worth 20% less there? Does the fact that your 300gp worth of diamonds just dropped to 240gp worth of diamonds keep you from casting the spell? And since diamonds are commonly used for spells and are generally consumed forever, diamonds should be fairly rare and hard to come by after thousands of years of consumption, so fewer and fewer of them will be needed to hit the 300gp mark as time goes by.

It seems to me that it should be a weight of diamonds, like say 10 carats or something.
You have to assume a "multiversal standard pricing" for diamonds. In other words, it kind of is about weight, it's just that a certain cost is assumed for a certain weight of diamonds unless you specify differently for a location. So yeah, you can probably get them cheaper in certain places. Otherwise, you'd have to say that if someone just gave you diamonds they wouldn't work, because you didn't pay for them. Discounts are no different in that respect.

I suppose even in our game, it is a nice hefty sum the way the DM explains it. He equates 1 cp = $1 USD.
That's exactly how I do it. Based on most costs and wages and such, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was also what the designers were thinking. With the exception of a few areas where that gold to $ equivalent doesn't make too much sense, it generally works pretty well.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
You have to assume a "multiversal standard pricing" for diamonds. In other words, it kind of is about weight, it's just that a certain cost is assumed for a certain weight of diamonds unless you specify differently for a location. So yeah, you can probably get them cheaper in certain places. Otherwise, you'd have to say that if someone just gave you diamonds they wouldn't work, because you didn't pay for them. Discounts are no different in that respect.
Yeah, I get that you have to hand wave this away in order for it to function. However, I disagree with the bolded sentence. Value is what something is worth, not what you get it for. If you pay 10,000 for 3,000 worth of diamonds, you have overpaid by 7,000. Those diamonds don't change to be valued at 10,000. Similarly, if you are given 3,000 worth of diamonds for free, they are still worth 3,000. In my example the actual worth of the diamonds changed.
 

dnd4vr

Adventurer
The price isn't the only limiting factor -- finding 300 gp of diamonds can also be a challenge. In a CoS campaign they are virtually non-existent. In a city like Waterdeep, one can probably find that many diamonds on a regular basis, but in smaller towns finding any diamonds could be a challenge much less 300 gp worth.

For people that make 1 sp / day in wages, this amount is simply out of reach. Because of this merchants, unless they cater to the ultra-wealthy, probably don't have this on hand in most places.
A lot of that depends on the game/table/campaign. Finding such things isn't too hard for our group, and when we do we stock pile pearls for Identify (the spell consumes them for us) and diamond dust for Revivfy. So far, hasn't been a problem.
 

WaterRabbit

Villager
A lot of that depends on the game/table/campaign. Finding such things isn't too hard for our group, and when we do we stock pile pearls for Identify (the spell consumes them for us) and diamond dust for Revivfy. So far, hasn't been a problem.
Isn't that what I just exactly said?
 

jaelis

Explorer
It has always bugged me that if the DM makes diamonds, say, very rare, the logically the price should rise so just a tiny pinch of dust is worth 300 gp. If even a tiny pinch is hard to find the diamonds should be nearly invaluable.

Same thing happens with rubies.
 

dnd4vr

Adventurer
The price isn't the only limiting factor -- finding 300 gp of diamonds can also be a challenge. In a CoS campaign they are virtually non-existent. In a city like Waterdeep, one can probably find that many diamonds on a regular basis, but in smaller towns finding any diamonds could be a challenge much less 300 gp worth.

For people that make 1 sp / day in wages, this amount is simply out of reach. Because of this merchants, unless they cater to the ultra-wealthy, probably don't have this on hand in most places.
A lot of that depends on the game/table/campaign. Finding such things isn't too hard for our group, and when we do we stock pile pearls for Identify (the spell consumes them for us) and diamond dust for Revivfy. So far, hasn't been a problem.
Isn't that what I just exactly said?
Doesn't seem to be. (Bold added for emphasis.)
 

jasper

Rotten DM
The price isn't the only limiting factor -- finding 300 gp of diamonds can also be a challenge. In a CoS campaign they are virtually non-existent. In a city like Waterdeep, one can probably find that many diamonds on a regular basis, but in smaller towns finding any diamonds could be a challenge much less 300 gp worth.

For people that make 1 sp / day in wages, this amount is simply out of reach. Because of this merchants, unless they cater to the ultra-wealthy, probably don't have this on hand in most places.
I have to agree with wet bunny here. It is very cool to different locations to have different items in stock. But I have to disagree with water rabbit because using near to real world economics sucks to keep track of. Back in the day to limit gp, the moneychanger charged 10% to convert to local coinage.
 

WaterRabbit

Villager
I have to agree with wet bunny here. It is very cool to different locations to have different items in stock. But I have to disagree with water rabbit because using near to real world economics sucks to keep track of. Back in the day to limit gp, the moneychanger charged 10% to convert to local coinage.
I made no mention of economics per se. My point is that different locales will naturally have different raries and it varies based on campaign. Again in Curse of Strahd you will never find 300 gp worth of diamond as written. Revivify is unlikely to ever be case in CoS as written. A generous DM might allow you to find some diamonds in Strahd's horde, but that's about it. And by that time, better options are available.

My other point was that in BFE you are unlikely to find 300 gp of diamonds as well. There is no need to try and make the game an economics simulator. Logically the only places to find 300 gp worth of diamonds are: large cities, treasures in hordes, and kimberlite pipes. In a large city finding them can be a downtime activity like finding a uncommon magic item.

However, my guess is that most tables don't even bother with material components so the cost/rarity of diamonds never enters into the equation.
 

Sword of Spirit

Adventurer
Yeah, I get that you have to hand wave this away in order for it to function. However, I disagree with the bolded sentence. Value is what something is worth, not what you get it for. If you pay 10,000 for 3,000 worth of diamonds, you have overpaid by 7,000. Those diamonds don't change to be valued at 10,000. Similarly, if you are given 3,000 worth of diamonds for free, they are still worth 3,000. In my example the actual worth of the diamonds changed.
Unless I'm really missing something, there isn't any inherent correspondence of gold to diamonds. Diamonds (or anything else) are worth whatever someone is willing to pay for them.

As much as I love Planescape, I personally can't see an original boxed set being worth thousands of dollars like I've seen them listed for on ebay. But it people are actually buying at that price (and they may not be), then that really is what it is worth.

I'm not an expert in economics by any means, so you may be referring to some principle I'm not familiar with, but from what I can see, there isn't such a thing as independent value beyond what someone is willing to pay.
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
As far as diamond dust, I've always thought of it two ways. On is that it's just a simplification like most of the rules in D&D.

But there's another way to look at it. The physical amount of diamond dust doesn't matter. It could be an ounce or a pound, what matters is what had to be sacrificed to get it. The amount of dust is symbolic, it's the sacrifice of wealth measured in gold that counts. There always has to be a sacrifice when a someone back from the dead, even if they were only dead for a minute.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Unless I'm really missing something, there isn't any inherent correspondence of gold to diamonds. Diamonds (or anything else) are worth whatever someone is willing to pay for them.

As much as I love Planescape, I personally can't see an original boxed set being worth thousands of dollars like I've seen them listed for on ebay. But it people are actually buying at that price (and they may not be), then that really is what it is worth.

I'm not an expert in economics by any means, so you may be referring to some principle I'm not familiar with, but from what I can see, there isn't such a thing as independent value beyond what someone is willing to pay.
You are missing something. That something is that D&D doesn't make an attempt to mirror real world economics, so when the game says something is worth 2000, it's worth 2000. You can over pay or underpay, but the value is the value. Even if the PCs aren't willing to pay that much, NPCs are so the value is constant. D&Dnomics at work. :)
 

Sword of Spirit

Adventurer
You are missing something. That something is that D&D doesn't make an attempt to mirror real world economics, so when the game says something is worth 2000, it's worth 2000. You can over pay or underpay, but the value is the value. Even if the PCs aren't willing to pay that much, NPCs are so the value is constant. D&Dnomics at work. :)
Ah, I see what you mean now. A multiversal constant. ;-)
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Ah, I see what you mean now. A multiversal constant. ;-)

LOL Yeah, it kinda is. :p

You can buy a diamond for 1000 gold on Toril, head over to Sigil where it will appraise for 1000 gold, then take a door to Oerth where a merchant will appraise it for the same 1000 gold.

If value were in the eye of the beholder, then you could make a PC who values diamonds much higher than others, have him go into a gem shop and buy a bunch of diamond chips which the merchant values at 10 gold, let the DM know you value those chips at 500 gold, and cast raise dead with each chip. Somehow I think your DM(or you if you DM) won't allow that to happen.
 

dnd4vr

Adventurer
UPDATE: She LIVES!!!

The rest of the party finally caught up with the NPC and the character who had died from the vampire bite. Two high priests, performing a ceremony in concert were able, via Greater Restoration and Raise Dead, to restore the character to life. The other characters arrived about a week later to find their fallen comrade well again and ready to continue with their new quest.

Thanks all for your views.
 

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