Death and Dying (HP and Con scores)

[ThomasBJJ]

I've given this alot of thought. I would like a more detailed (yet fairly simple) method to make "near death" a little more impacting.

Normally, once a character hits -10 Hp, they are dead. But, they can go as low as -9, and in one round, a 3rd level cleric can cast Cure Serious Wounds and they are back on thier feet, none the worse for wear.

Here's my variant system:

When a character drops below 0 hit points, every point of damage beyond those that put you at zero, and any subsequent damage (from attacks, spells, or failure to stabalise) do 1 Hp AND 1 Constitution damage. Constitution damage heals at a rate of 1 point per day.
A dying character is not considered dead until he reaches a Constitution score of ZERO, regardless of hit point total.

This system allows frail characters with dangerously low CON scores to die easier than characters with high CON scores, which IMO is as it should be.

A character who is healed back up after being downed in combat is now going to have a lower Hp total due to a reduced CON, AND, if they go down below zero Hp again, they are even lower on CON. The cleric can heal the HP damage, but it would take a Restoration spell to heal the CON.

Another good consideration in this system, the character who would normally be put down to -5 hit points under standard rules, would be at -5 Hp PLUS -5 more Hp/Character level due to the CON bonus Hp loss. That could put a 3rd level character down to -20 Hp, but still far away from dying (assuming he has a reasonable CON score.)

The whole point of this... To make falling in combat more dangerous, and harder to recover from.

As long as you do not drop below 0 hp, everything works the same, and Cleric healing is just as potent. If you get critically wounded (drop below 0 hp, it is very hard for clerics to get you back on your feet).

 

[the Jester]

I think basically you're just going to increase the value of the lesser restoration spell a whole lot.

It's not a bad idea overall, but the pcs will be able to easily defend against it once they're able to cast it- it's only second level, after all. And keep in mind that it'll become even harder to kill things with a high con- say, a 30 or thereabouts. It'll also make it so that really healthy (high con) creatures will take forever to heal from near-death.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[ThomasBJJ]

. It'll also make it so that really healthy (high con) creatures will take forever to heal from near-death.

Yes that is true, but is that a bad thing?

A huge creature with a 30 Con score basically just needs to be reduced to the equivalent of -30 Hp to "die", or better yet coup-de-gras as soon as it is at 0 Hp or lower. It will still go unconcious at the exact same amount of damage, so it is not really harder to kill. Just harder to bleed to death if left for dead with out a CDG.

That same creature, reduced to 1 Con (as close to death as possible) would take 29 days to FULLY recover to 100%. That's actually pretty quick to go from critical condition to 100%. It would still regain hit points pretty quickly (1 hp per day/per HD or level), and be on it's feet in a matter of days even without healing.

 

[Anubis]

Nice, but I've already created a new system that works even better. Go here:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24624

I explain the system in the notes near the bottom of my first post. It's quite realistic, keeps magic as being powerful, and it works perfectly.

Basically, you die at negative hit points equal to your Level plus your Constitution.

 

[Hollywood]

Basically, you die at negative hit points equal to your Level plus your Constitution.

I've proposed to use a -10 + CON modifier as the negative hitpoints, but we are also experimenting with a streamlined critical system too.. and that gives me some other ideas.

 

[Aaron2]

When a character drops below 0 hit points, every point of damage beyond those that put you at zero, and any subsequent damage (from attacks, spells, or failure to stabalise) do 1 Hp AND 1 Constitution damage. Constitution damage heals at a rate of 1 point per day.
A dying character is not considered dead until he reaches a Constitution score of ZERO, regardless of hit point total.

This is similar to what I do, only I have a chart that determines which ability score gets damaged.

I think this is a better system that Vitality/WPs.

The main difference is that if someone gets whacked hard, he's out of the fight.


Aaron

 

[ThomasBJJ]

At the moment, we are using "character death happens when negative Hp total = Normal Con score" which has saved a few PC a number of times.

But I'm going to use my new system for a while. I like it.

 

[Xylix]

It would be simpiler to say that those who take damage past 0 hp, take an equal amount of temporary constitution damage.

It's not a bad idea overall, but the pcs will be able to easily defend against it once they're able to cast it- it's only second level, after all. And keep in mind that it'll become even harder to kill things with a high con- say, a 30 or thereabouts. It'll also make it so that really healthy (high con) creatures will take forever to heal from near-death.

For combat purposes to a player all that matters is that the opponent is down, once down most opponenets will not heal, and thus the differintation will not matter.

As such downed equal kill at the players leasure, no matter the method. This is one reason why I consider GMs that Coup de Grace players that are downed to be playing foolishly. After all, why the heck are the enemies fighting if they don't plan to win? And if they plan to win wasting a turn killing a player is just plain stupid. It is more time for the enemy to turn the tide. The only time this changes in when a person is killed.

This would make this even more true. The temporary constitution damage would knock off maximum hit points until that lessar restoration is delivered, which is another spell, and more importantly at higher levels, more time. What is more, for spells like Heal to be very effective at this point the restoration would NEED to be delivered.

As such a downed player is more permantely effected, instead of up and back on a moments notice. A factor that weakens healing magic on a downed player.


The side effects are actuall quite numerous. The question of whether they are good depends on the GM. I would say yes as I perfer the effects of being downed to be more extreme, and as a player it pushes Coup de Graceing my downed charecter even a more likely GM metagame feature.

As a GM I want players that are down staying down, or at least having trouble getting up. That way Heal isn't such a big factor. At the same time it allows there to be a longer seperation before killing the player. Infact, I would be tempted to rip out ressurection spells and just say if knocked to 0 constitution you need a special spell (conviently replacing raise dead) to speed your healing or at least 3 months recovery, under a healer. There by ignoring my annoyances with such spells


But that is just me.

 

[ThomasBJJ]

It would be simpiler to say that those who take damage past 0 hp, take an equal amount of temporary constitution damage.

Yup, those are the better words for it.

Xylic, your entire post is exactly what I'm talking about. You go down in a fight, you are going to need some time to get back to 100%. Cure wounds spells can only do so much. Read any of the fantasy novels, they always talk about there being limitations to healing magic.

 

[mroberon1972]

Actually, the method we use is:


DAMAGE:

Hit Points (HP): These are used normally. They represent the characters cinematic ability to avoid fatal damage during an encounter. The character usually shows this damage as bruises, minor cuts, and scrapes. Characters are not disabled by damage to HP until reaching 0.
- When reduced to 0 HP, apply all excess damage to Life Blood. The character is also Knocked Out. See LifeBlood for recovery info.

Stun Points (SP): Also known as subdual damage, this represent disorientation and how winded the character gets. He can also take stun damage from things other than combat, such as heavy exertion. When the number of SP is equal to or exceeds the character's current HP, the excess is applied as standard HP damage. The character is also knocked out.
- He may make a Fort save every minute (DC 15) to wake up and become Staggered. He remains Staggered until he heals enough damage to keep his SP from exceeding his current HP. When Staggered, a character may only take partial actions.

LifeBlood (LB): This score is equal to a character's Con score. It represents the character's physical ability to survive fatal trauma to his or her body. It is shown as broken bones, gut wounds, and other forms of massive damage to a character.
- For every point of LB taken, a character suffers a -1 to all rolls involving AC, attack, melee damage, skills, and saves. He must make concentration checks to cast spells (DC 10 + LB damage). This is not only due to the physical damage hampering the character, but because of the pain of the wound as well.
- Every round, during his turn, the character takes another point of LB damage. The character may make a Fort save every round (DC 10, don't forget the damage penalties for LB damage) to stabilize and stop losing LB. When the LB damage exceeds the character's LB score, the character dies.
- The character may make a Fort save every minute (DC 15, don't forget the damage penalties for LB damage) to wake up and become Staggered. He remains Staggered until he regains all of his LB and his SP no longer equals or exceeds his HP. A character does not have to be stable to be wake up.

HEALING

Hit Points (HP): Natural healing causes a character to regain HP each day as follows: Total rest (no activity) allows a character to regain 1.5 HP per level (round up). Normal rest (moving about, but no real stress) allows the recovery of 1 HP per level. Any Stressful Activity during the day only allow .5 HP per level (round down).
- Healing spells allow recovery of HP normally.

Stun Points (SP): When resting, characters regain their level in SP every hour. If the characters are walking or undergoing light activity, they only regain half that, rounded down. Any Stressful Activity prevents regaining SP for that hour. If the character has taken LifeBlood damage, he my not regain SP until his LifeBlood is fully healed.
- Healing spells reduce SP damage by 1 for every HP of healing it provides.

LifeBlood (LB): This damage heals very slowly, regardless of character level. A character heals 1 LB per month. While stressful activity does not prevent this healing, it does force a Fort save with all LB damage penalties against a DC of 10. If this save is failed, the character takes one LB of damage and must make another Fort save (DC 5) or begin dying again. Follow the LifeBlood rules for a character to stabilize under Damage, above. Characters cannot regain HP or SP until they have healed all LB damage.
- Healing spells reduce LB damage at a rate of 1 LB for every 10 HP of healing (rounded down). A successful Heal skill check (DC 5 + LB damage) reduces this to 5 hp per 1 LB. A roll of 1 on this check should be treated as stressful activity.
Stressful activity can be considered to be any of the following: Spell casting, combat (even if they are not hit), lifting above a light load, hustling or running, riding a horse, anything that causes damage, and anything else the game master deems stressful to the character in a physical manner.

Healing spells effect LB damage first. This means a healing spell must restore LB back to normal before any HP or SP can be restored (healers choice which). When healing a type of damage, any healing left over is lost. This means a character with 5 LB damage, when hit with a Heal spell, would regain all of his LB back (the -1d4 hp on Heal is not large enough to prevent the last point of LB healing), but no HP or SP. Another Heal would raise him back up to either his full HP or SP (minus 1d4), but not both. Raise dead restores all LB, and HP as listed. Resurrection and True Resurrection heal all damage as listed.


Mr. Oberon
"I get hit for HOW much?"