Pathfinder 2E Pathfinder 2E Remaster's Death and Dying rules are brutal.


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Surely it's the opposite. Another product had the lethal version of the rule, making it double-intended. Then they saw the reaction and were 'oops'.
As far as I can tell, the GM Screen has never received errata, and was released same day as the Core Rulebook; the Core Rulebook went through 4 rounds of errata and this was never clarified; and we know that the rules before official launch reflected the deadlier rules, but clearly ended up changed.

I think that all indicates that the lethal version were old rules; the Core Rulebook was always correct; during editing the fact that the GM Screen contradicted the Core Rulebook along with a desire for clarification in the Dying and Wounded rules (referring to the weird unnecessary reminder line) plus having to rush the product out made the mistake happen.

Out of all the places to have to errata, this one is poor; but I'm certain that if Paizo's intention really was to make the game deadlier, they would have done a preview on it. The fact they didn't and instead errata'd it immediately makes me think that the intention was unintended and was only caught by the time full preview PDFs came out.
 

As far as I can tell, the GM Screen has never received errata, and was released same day as the Core Rulebook; the Core Rulebook went through 4 rounds of errata and this was never clarified; and we know that the rules before official launch reflected the deadlier rules, but clearly ended up changed.

I think that all indicates that the lethal version were old rules; the Core Rulebook was always correct; during editing the fact that the GM Screen contradicted the Core Rulebook along with a desire for clarification in the Dying and Wounded rules (referring to the weird unnecessary reminder line) plus having to rush the product out made the mistake happen.

Out of all the places to have to errata, this one is poor; but I'm certain that if Paizo's intention really was to make the game deadlier, they would have done a preview on it. The fact they didn't and instead errata'd it immediately makes me think that the intention was unintended and was only caught by the time full preview PDFs came out.
The GM screen is a bit of an oddity, because it doesn't list the adding your wounded level note to failure or critical failure lines of recovery checks (which is why I told @Retreater in an earlier post mine doesn't say that) while making a note of adding your wounded level any time you modify the dying value under the Wounded section which is why I missed seeing it. It also doesn't seem to have had any changes made to it over the last few years, so I'm far more inclined to think you're correct.

Also worth mentioning Mark Seifter posted about it on the PF2e subreddit and he quoted Mike Sayre as saying "Three people all in the same room who thought they were on the same page, but that institutional knowledge poisoned the well and created a misunderstanding for one of the inputters." So yeah.. just seems like a screwup that unfortunately made it into the book.
 
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Staffan

Legend
I think that all indicates that the lethal version were old rules; the Core Rulebook was always correct; during editing the fact that the GM Screen contradicted the Core Rulebook along with a desire for clarification in the Dying and Wounded rules (referring to the weird unnecessary reminder line) plus having to rush the product out made the mistake happen.
My hypothesis is that someone in charge told someone else to make sure that the main rules for dying and the ones on the GM screen were aligned this time, and that this person "fixed" things in the wrong direction.
 

Jahydin

Hero
Glad they backtracked it.

The math nerd in me thinks the corrected way has more interesting interactions that could lead to death thanks to the extra wiggle room.
 

Reynard

Legend
Supporter
There is no way the rules in the PF2ER Player Core are wrong. They just published the thing.

So you die if you are wounded. Consider that before starting a fight.
 



Lojaan

Hero
It impacts it when you gain the dying condition. When you get the dying condition, it's 1+your current wounded condition. The impact is basically so that you don't get an infinite unconscious-heal loop. You basically can hit the ground 3 time and get up before you risk death.
Well, risk immediate death. A couple of bad rolls and you aren't getting back up again after the first time. The second time is one unlucky roll away from the big character sheet recycler in the sky.
 

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