Deathjump Spiders - Too Tough?

[Plane Sailing]

It looks to me as though deathjump spiders were 'supposed' to have the death from above on a somewhat limited basis - something like every other round, by saying that they MUST shift 6 squares to make the jump.

One of my reasons for suggesting this is DMG p42, where the 3d6+ damage they do would be a 'limited damage expression' for their level, and not something you would expect them to do every round.

Another reason is that as a skirmisher I would expect it to be moving in, attacking, moving out again, getting to a good position and then moving in to attack again.

A third reason is that (as evidenced above) used in other ways enable them to slaughter parties much more quickly than you'd expect them to be able to.

Cheers

 

[Plane Sailing]

Maybe 'death from above' should be a recharge power?

 

[tiornys]

Most of the other lvl. 4 skirmishers get a bonus from charging, or can more easily get bonus damage by moving right before they attack. I agree it seems like these guys should have to move some amount to use their ability. I don't think I'd recharge it, but I do think I'd treat it like a shifty charge.

t~

 

[ExploderWizard]

It looks to me as though deathjump spiders were 'supposed' to have the death from above on a somewhat limited basis - something like every other round, by saying that they MUST shift 6 squares to make the jump.

One of my reasons for suggesting this is DMG p42, where the 3d6+ damage they do would be a 'limited damage expression' for their level, and not something you would expect them to do every round.

Another reason is that as a skirmisher I would expect it to be moving in, attacking, moving out again, getting to a good position and then moving in to attack again.

A third reason is that (as evidenced above) used in other ways enable them to slaughter parties much more quickly than you'd expect them to be able to.

Cheers

This is probably due to the shift from the recharge version to the at-will version. The damage reduction is paltry compared to the ability to use it every round with no mitigating circumstances. Its a simple case of changing one aspect of a creature without considering the effect on the whole.

 

[AtomicPope]

Hmmm....

I've been thinking about this because I wanted to make the DJ spiders the "final encounter" for 1st level characters introducing them to 2nd level and I put it off. Instead I opted for 5th level Boneshard brutes (one PC died)

Maybe they should have a recharge. It just seemed that their basic damage was too high. Making their "Death from Above" a , should be enough to keep them from tearing parties to shreds. I'll probably wait til their 3rd level so they have another encounter power before I throw into the web.

 

[Nifft]

I found 4 Deathjump spiders an appropriate challenge for 6th level PCs. IMHO they hit far too hard vs. 1st level PCs.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Mengu]

I wouldn't use more than one against a 1st level group. Just supplement it with some baby spiders or something, knocking off one or two levels, ditching death from above, and taking a d6 away from the damage dice. Then add that d6 back in if they start their turn unengaged.

 

[Pielorinho]

I ran Nareau's encounter above. Part of what made the encounter manageable was that I played the spiders in a robotic, stupid fashion. Almost every round, this is what they did:
1) Death from above. They attacked whoever was nearest to them; if there was roughly a tie, they attacked someone who had recently attacked them. No concentration of attacks, unless a PC got separated from the group.
2) Move action to climb back into the webs, so they could make another jump next round. No concern about whether this would subject them to Opportunity Attacks.

On the other hand, I filled much of the room with webs from the DMG, requiring a DC 15 athletics check to avoid, and several times PCs had their movement ended by trying and failing to barrel through a web. Also, I gave the spiders a Webwalk ability, allowing them to move unhindered through the webs.

Overall I think the PCs used some pretty smart tactics, such as knocking them prone and blinding them (I ruled that a blinded spider wouldn't try to attack, since it was usually beginning its round far from the PCs), and I ruled that the webs burnt away in any square touched by fire, so they carved out some clear space in the room in which to fight. It was a pretty fun fight, if a bit on the long side.

Daniel

 

[frankthedm]

Looking at the DJS, I'd say the problem is an extra d6 in its damage output. Has anyone playtested it dealing 1d6+3 on it's basic rather than 2d6+3?

I recall some conjecture that in earlier playtests monsters were going to be doing lots of damage, bur that got changed eventually. This might have been the reason for the high damage rates on some 4e stats on the backs of DDM monster cards. ATM, I'd assume this is a throwback to that time that slipped by.

 

[Tellerve]

Absolutely their damage should be changed from 2d6+3 to 1d6+3. Look at the other level 4 skirmishers and there is a big difference.

Especially look at the Fey Panther which gets a similar +1d6 and prone effect ability. Add to that they both have extra abilities to move about the battlefield, via prodigious leap for the spider and teleport for the fey panther.

But then the spider has a higher AC and tremorsense, not to mention the ongoing poison damage and slow effect.

Sheesh, yes, they should certainly have their damage toned down.

Tellerve