Deathmark and enemies that rise from the dead

[Ryujin]

I ran into an interesting situation in our last session with my Warlock/Grave Caller. We were facing undead, the leader of which could apparently rise again 3 times after being 'killed.' I had this creature doubly marked; both my Dirge of Inescapable Doom ('deathmark') and Warlock's Curse. After the first time that the creature dropped my Warlock's curse obviously triggered and was removed, as it directly states this in the rules for curse. My deathmark, however, states that it persists until the end of the encounter and has no rider on it about being removed when the creature drops, but the GM ruled that it did so.

So what is the collective wisdom on this here? Are there any official citations that cover this? Obviously I'd like to not lose my one-creature-per-encounter paragon path ability when the opponent is still kicking, but I need a leg to stand on.

 

[1of3]

The encounter is over after you take a short rest. The mark should have remained.

Unless you really have taken a rest inbetween. In that case though, you would have regained the deathmark.

 

[Ryujin]

That's how I felt about it, but it was ruled differently. I asked Customer Support about it but received a response stating, "...there isn’t an official answer for the situation you describe. Hopefully, we’ll see an update or FAQ entry covering it soon..." Not very helpful.

 

[Ryujin]

Sorry, double post.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Generally, it's nice to wake up from dead and not be still under an effect, so in general having them fall off when you die is great.

 

[Ryujin]

Great for the enemy, not so great for the guy who loses the advantages gained by his Paragon Path. This is when the creature dropped to zero hits. A player character keeps taking the effects of ongoing damage and attacks' secondary effects after he drops to zero, because he isn't dead yet. Saving throws continue, with the addition of a death save, after a character falls.

 

[CapnZapp]

Generally, creatures that are "reborn" or similar should IMO get rid of all annoying effects when they die and come back.

Why? Because that's the main reason for having that schtick!

Then of course particulars will vary wildly. A shaman could have put a ritual on himself transforming his corpse into an avenging Vine Horror Spellfiend, and to truly count as two monsters for that encounter, your mark would have to drop.

If the DM's playing up the horror aspect he might rule you win the fight against the shaman and rest only for his corpse to rise (with allies, presumably) - that's a whole new encounter and just as 1 in 3 says that means there isn't much of a problem, as your mark will have recharged by then.

What I caution you against is taking the player's view solely. Obviously I understand your irritation, but you need to try to see it from the DM's side. Chances are he did not select that monster specifically to hose your ability, so you need to respect his or her decisions.

Trying to steamroll your DM wielding rulebooks will only serve to annoy him or her, and that's a fight you cannot win!

 

[Ryujin]

I'm not trying to rules lawyer the GM to death. This is largely frustration with unclear rules. Some marks, like Warlock's Curse, state quite clearly that they drop when the creature does. Some don't. In this case the creature doesn't state that it's "schtick" is to resurrect (if an undead can do that) in order to flush all marks and conditions, and it in fact comes back unchanged within the same encounter.

Of course I respected his decision, after a few seconds of expected whining. The GM is the final arbiter.