D&D 5E Deconstructing 5e: Typical Wealth by Level

[tankschmidt]

You are very welcome. It was a labor of love.

Thank you for the RotRL conversion! I certainly plan on stealing some of those NPCs and monsters.

 

[Gustavohvg]

Nice table. It differs significantly from the table on DMG page 38, specially in level 17 (in which players would have about 27k - including magic itens).


Maybe the authors thought that players would loose big amounts of money in adventures. It could be spent paying messengers, guards, getting assaulted, loosing their real state properties, paying to revive characters and using expensive magic components (there are a lot in high levels).

This table also shows that the authors don't expect players to have a 'very rare' magic item in level 17.

 

[tankschmidt]

Nice table. It differs significantly from the table on DMG page 38, specially in level 17 (in which players would have about 27k - including magic itens).


Maybe the authors thought that players would loose big amounts of money in adventures. It could be spent paying messengers, guards, getting assaulted, loosing their real state properties, paying to revive characters and using expensive magic components (there are a lot in high levels).

This table also shows that the authors don't expect players to have a 'very rare' magic item in level 17.

Yes, my analysis gives a result that is remarkably different than the table on page 38. I wonder why the designers decided to make it that way?

Frankly, there really is not a mechanism for losing substantial amounts of money over the course of an adventurer's career. On the whole, material components are quite cheap. Raising the dead is a pittance to what a typical character will have amassed from treasure hoards. And the cost for hiring skilled labor is truly minor.

I can only assume that the table on page 38 was intentionally written to be overly modest so a DM would not feel pressured to give new characters the moon and the sun. An adventurer acquiring the typical number of treasure hoards will have way more than this, not even counting magical items. FireLance wrote a very nice post on typical magical item distribution (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-of-quot-Typical-quot-Magic-Item-Distribution), which is also at odds with the table on page 38.

 

[CapnZapp]

Frankly, there really is not a mechanism for losing substantial amounts of money over the course of an adventurer's career.

This, very much this.

The vibe I'm getting is that things aren't truly well thought through.

And that is a big problem for me.

They removed the magic shoppe, but they did not come up with a directly comparable alternative.

Not all groups care for building castles or starting churches. Lots of groups just want to move on to the next exciting adventure, the next monster-filled dungeon.

For these groups, there really isn't anything to spend your gold on past, perhaps, level five. Having a guild or a wizard tower simply have no bearing.

Having a brand new +1 longsword would.

I haven't found a good solution yet. Adventurers will collect hundreds of thousands of gold: but if you don't care for a new castle, there really isn't anything to spend it on. Not that can match the utility and therefore desirability of a magic shoppe.

 

[tankschmidt]

Adventurers will collect hundreds of thousands of gold: but if you don't care for a new castle, there really isn't anything to spend it on. Not that can match the utility and therefore desirability of a magic shoppe.

You are right that there are few ways in the DMG to spend the 10,000s and 100,000s of GPs that a typical adventurer will earn from level 8 or so up to level 20. But there are two options -- building strongholds and creating magical items.

I interpret these two options as a compromise on the part of the designers. Players who are more familiar with TSR D&D will often want to build strongholds and add their lasting legacy to the campaign world. Such a stronghold will set them back 10k to 500k and will require between 100 days and three years to build.

Compare that to magical item creation, which is likely to more appealing to players coming from the magical item shop experience of the WoTC editions. Building high level magical items will cost from 5k to 500k, very similar to the cost of a stronghold. It will also require time. A single character can create a rare item in 200 days. A very rare item can be created in about a year and a half, if the entire party takes part (note that any characters beyond the first must only meet the level prerequisite). The time scales are pretty similar to those in the stronghold construction option.

On the other hand, creating a legendary item is something else entirely. A legendary item requires truly a legendary amount of time to build. It requires an entire party of four to devote nearly 14 years to its construction! Imagining the adventurers hitting level 17 and entering a pseudo-retirement, perhaps adventuring once every few years to knock the rust off. Fast forward the world a decade, and the party has sewn their own Well of Many Worlds.

 

[tankschmidt]

It seems like a default assumption to the high level game is that characters will go long times without adventuring.

 

[CapnZapp]

It seems like a default assumption to the high level game is that characters will go long times without adventuring.

Snarky, but a point well made!

 

[CapnZapp]

Yes, my analysis gives a result that is remarkably different than the table on page 38. I wonder why the designers decided to make it that way?

Frankly, there really is not a mechanism for losing substantial amounts of money over the course of an adventurer's career. On the whole, material components are quite cheap. Raising the dead is a pittance to what a typical character will have amassed from treasure hoards. And the cost for hiring skilled labor is truly minor.

I can only assume that the table on page 38 was intentionally written to be overly modest so a DM would not feel pressured to give new characters the moon and the sun. An adventurer acquiring the typical number of treasure hoards will have way more than this, not even counting magical items. FireLance wrote a very nice post on typical magical item distribution (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-of-quot-Typical-quot-Magic-Item-Distribution), which is also at odds with the table on page 38.

I do want to point out that you are misunderstanding the purpose of the DMG Starting Equipment on page 38.

This table is not meant to represent what an average character have accumulated at all. I don't think comparing your results with it gives any meaningful data whatsoever.

It merely tells you what to give a newly hatched PC created above level 1.

And, not-too-incidentally, send across the message that even high level heroes aren't expected to have (and thus need) much loot at all.

In my mind, this is the true purpose of this table. It says "It's quite okay to give a level 20 character only three magic items (none of more than Rare rarity) and only 20000 gold". It, like no other table in the book, really screams MAGIC ITEMS NOT EXPECTED OR NEEDED EVER.

 

[CapnZapp]

Now, don't misunderstand me.

Just because I think I know the designer's intention for that table doesn't mean I agree...

Here is my own proposal for an Expected Wealth Table:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?394743-Wealth-by-Level&p=6613476&viewfull=1#post6613476

 

[mlund]

Compared to living expenses for downtime days starting adventurers are living hand-to-mouth in a bad way. They can barely afford to feed themselves and replace their starting equipment if stolen / destroyed. You've got to start pulling down level 5-10 treasure to really move out of the sell-sword gutter.

Marty Lund