Deconstructing class abilities for purchase with XP

Hypothetically, does this system make it easy for a DM to hand out partial abilities as a character progresses through a level in a class, so that perhaps if they are a druid progressing from 1st level to 2nd some point between 0 and 1000 XP the DM would say "ok, your BAB went up by one". Later, give the player +1 to Will, or some other piece of the abilities, skills, and powers that he'd normally receive when he hits the magical 1000 mark? How much does this gradual front loaded progression of abilities skew the game mechanics in the PCs favor?
 

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Lots of game systems do something similar to this, where you can spend points on abilities and statistics.

Examples:
White Wolf's Vampire et al
Dragonslayer (SPI)
DC Heroes
Champions
etc.
 
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Driddle said:
Ah, heck, why stop there? Add the cleric's turning ability, a few bard song perks, rage and a familiar/animal-companion/mount. THAT would be a good starting point.

At second level, you can acquire the monk's slap-down benefits.


Why the attitude? 11 feats has to be worth a few low level spells and a favored enemy.
 

DSC-EricPrice said:
Hypothetically, does this system make it easy for a DM to hand out partial abilities as a character progresses through a level in a class, so that perhaps if they are a druid progressing from 1st level to 2nd some point between 0 and 1000 XP the DM would say "ok, your BAB went up by one". Later, give the player +1 to Will, or some other piece of the abilities, skills, and powers that he'd normally receive when he hits the magical 1000 mark?
Hypothetically, very easy. The DM knows (to use an earlier example) that it costs 150 XP to get a +0 BAB to a +1 BAB. So when the player has picked up 150 XP, he gets the increase. Then at, say, another 150 XP, he sees his caster level go up... and so on.

How much does this gradual front loaded progression of abilities skew the game mechanics in the PCs favor?
Surprisingly, not much. I actually "aimed" to have the average class build of level X land "past" the "minimum required XP" to have a PC of level X.

Which is to say, on average, getting all of the Level X abilities happens when the character has the XP required for Level X plus about 25-50% of the XP required for Level X+1. In other words, your character usually doesn't gain all of his "4th-level abilities" at exactly 6000 XP - it often happens around 7000 or 8000 XP instead. Some classes (and some levels) gain things a little early or a little late, but on average, it all balances out.

As a hard example, the "average" 1st-level core class (i.e., starting character) requires a shade over 2000 XP to "build." Some classes require less (a 1st-level fighter can be built on just over 1000) and some require more (a 1st-level cleric approaches 3000). I have characters start with 1500 "generation points" which are basically the virtual XP you use to build a starting character. On average, you come up short of a "1st-level character." But you quickly catch up and by the time you're around 900 XP you're more powerful (on average) than a "starting 1st-level character." The differences in starting builds usually even out after 3-4 levels, and as I've mentioned elsewhere, there are some levels that are more expensive than others (at 12th level you see all your saves increase, all classes improve BAB by one, you get a Feat, and you get an attribute increase - at 13th level, you see none of the above unless you have fighter-type BAB in which case you see only a BAB increment - naturally, all the abilities of 12th level tend to cost more than all those of 13th level for this reason).

In other words, I tried to aim for something in the "range of XP that a level X character would have" rather than "the minimum XP that a level X character would have." I hope that allays any of the concerns you might have.

--The Sigil
 

Hi Sigil!

I've bought the pdf already but I didn't have the time to read it. Still I tried to find out if you covered 3.5 psionics. The search for "psion" got me zero results. So I'm wondering, if you have them skipped entirely and if you did, if you will publish a web enhancement which covers that topic. (I always wanted such a system for D&D but I'll have to see yet, if you can keep this promise - in my point of view. That's the fate of the working class - no time to read! :p )
 
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Let me dig up my question to Sigil from page 2 again... guess it got lost in all the OGL hubbub:
Conaill said:
Do you have any comments on BESM's use of a linear scale for increasing ability costs, versus your own (what looks like) quadratic scale? If you get a linear number of XP per level, shouldn't class ability costs scale linearly with level as well?
 

My issue with the BESM point-buy system is that they DIDN'T deconstruct the classes. If you read through their book, you discover that they ended up adding a LOT of 'points' to some classes in order for these classes to be 'balanced' with wizards and sorcerers according to their point-buy system.

If they had really deconstructed the classes completely, then the point values would have added up and wouldn't have required massive retooling of the fighter, barbarian and so on to fit within their point-buy system.

---

Now, as a footnote to that rant, I *love* BESM d20. It's a genius piece of work, but not one that handles classic d20 fantasy well (as shown in the class deconstructions), and I don't feel it is a workable method for building classless characters for a classic fantasy D&D-style d20 game.

(Heck, I run BESM d20 games regularly for my daughter's gaming group - absolutely adore the book)
 

Driddle said:
I never said I wanted synergies. I never said I wanted players to go to "Hey, neat!" I never said I wanted them spread about in equal measure.

Show me where I said those things. Go ahead. I dare you.

Can't do it, huh? That's because you made up those comments for me.

Shame on you, Umbran. Shame, shame, shame. How can we ever trust anything you say now?


Um... he was using the generic You, most of us understood that. Alternately he may have been referring to designers in particular, because that is true that they look for those things because the *neat* factor is a big selling point with most people, have you (and here I mean you specificially) never opened a book and seen a class as gone something to the order of "oh wow, that's cool."
 

Joshua Dyal said:
Looks like it. I wasn't sure the first time, so I took it straight. Ah, well. Got me. :)

It got me too, badly, just got through dealing with three real life people that actually are that dumb and it kinda biased me, so kudos driddle, you got me too, dag nabbit;P
 

RuleMaster said:
Hi Sigil!

I've bought the pdf already but I didn't have the time to read it. Still I tried to find out if you covered 3.5 psionics. The search for "psion" got me zero results. So I'm wondering, if you have them skipped entirely and if you did, if you will publish a web enhancement which covers that topic. (I always wanted such a system for D&D but I'll have to see yet, if you can keep this promise - in my point of view. That's the fate of the working class - no time to read! :p )
I didn't cover psionics... I admittedly dislike them and shy away from them in my campaigns so my familiarity with them is not that great. I will try digging into the psionics rules and see what I can come up with.
 

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