D&D General Deep Thoughts on AI- The Rise of DM 9000
- Thread starter Snarf Zagyg
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Fanaelialae
Legend
No, by and large all ENWorld would do is give the AI the ability to dispense advice on how to game. The AI lacks comprehension though, and can't actually put any of it into practice in the way that a human might. Even Actual Plays wouldn't really help, since an AI trained on those would probably just try to tell you a story (rather than run a game for you).
I bet we could train it really well to argue that whatever we seemed to like in a game wasn't really what we liked....
If I were tasked with using a large language model to build an AI DM, this would be my approach:
1. Create a database which can hold "facts about the game world." These would be in some standardized format (I think there are such formats for knowledge bases). The important thing is that each fact is tagged with one or more topics.
2. Train a version of the model -- call it the "fact-finder" -- to identify relevant topics from an ongoing session. Each time a player says something, the fact-finder determines what topics are relevant now.
3. Train a second version of the model -- the actual "DM" -- which should emit two things: New/updated facts, and text to the players. As input, it takes a) the transcript of the session so far, and b) all of the facts identified by the fact-finder on the relevant topics.
4. To keep the list of facts from growing out of control, it might be necessary to extract most of the game mechanics into a separate engine, a purely programmatic one. In that case the "DM" model will also need to emit orders to this engine ("Have Bob make a greatsword attack against Roper #2"). The engine would then update the fact database when mechanical events result in "visible" effects, like Roper #2 dying.
If this approach worked, the fact database would keep the DM-bot's improvisations grounded in a consistent fictional reality. It might work. I can also see a ton of ways it could fail, though, and it certainly would not be easy to implement.
1. Create a database which can hold "facts about the game world." These would be in some standardized format (I think there are such formats for knowledge bases). The important thing is that each fact is tagged with one or more topics.
2. Train a version of the model -- call it the "fact-finder" -- to identify relevant topics from an ongoing session. Each time a player says something, the fact-finder determines what topics are relevant now.
3. Train a second version of the model -- the actual "DM" -- which should emit two things: New/updated facts, and text to the players. As input, it takes a) the transcript of the session so far, and b) all of the facts identified by the fact-finder on the relevant topics.
4. To keep the list of facts from growing out of control, it might be necessary to extract most of the game mechanics into a separate engine, a purely programmatic one. In that case the "DM" model will also need to emit orders to this engine ("Have Bob make a greatsword attack against Roper #2"). The engine would then update the fact database when mechanical events result in "visible" effects, like Roper #2 dying.
If this approach worked, the fact database would keep the DM-bot's improvisations grounded in a consistent fictional reality. It might work. I can also see a ton of ways it could fail, though, and it certainly would not be easy to implement.
It's perfectly reasonable to insist on experimental results... but then you can't just wave off GPT's failures and glitches during those experiments. You have to demonstrate that they can be fixed in a programmatic way (i.e., one that doesn't rely on a human devising ad hoc solutions to nudge the bot back on track).
An enworld trained AI would start off sharp as a tack, and then dive so far off track you’ll never find the plot again
Clint_L
Hero
No, I don't have to demonstrate that at all. Because I am not interested in whether or not ChatGPT is a true AI or can perfectly emulate a human being as a DM. I am interested in what it can potentially be used to do. In fact, I have specified in this thread (and in real life to my students) that it should be looked at as an assistant to human beings, not a replacement.
So I am not waving off failures. I am interested in them, and interested in which ones are easily solvable and which ones are not. I don't have an agenda other than finding out how this thing can be used.
Also, I note that human DMs often have glitches and require another human being to get them back on track.
AdmundfortGeographer
Getting lost in fantasy maps
You know, I might be more interested in running a group of AI players than playing under an AI DM. Tuning the kinds of players would be a fun experiment.
J.Quondam
CR 1/8
This story is tangentially related, I think:
arstechnica.com
The sci-fi magazine, Clarke's World, is temprarily suspending its submissions process until it can get a handle on all the AI spam. The article also mentions a rise in the number of AI generated titles on Amazon books, etc, as well as "get rich quick" youtube clickbait on the topic.
Makes me wonder if &/or how many mostly completely AI generated publications are popping up on DTRPG and the like. As some here have noted, there are quite a few areas where AI content would be helpful (or maybe even preferable) to a human-written publication, things like the ubiquitous books of encounter tables, d100 lists, fantasy market inventories, and the like.
I imagine we'll see a massive glut of this sort of uncreative content in the near future, at least until these AIs are routinely incorporated into apps aimed specifically at RPGing.
Sci-fi becomes real as renowned magazine closes submissions due to AI writers
Clarkesworld wrestles with flood of machine-made submissions—over 500 in Feb. alone.
arstechnica.com
The sci-fi magazine, Clarke's World, is temprarily suspending its submissions process until it can get a handle on all the AI spam. The article also mentions a rise in the number of AI generated titles on Amazon books, etc, as well as "get rich quick" youtube clickbait on the topic.
Makes me wonder if &/or how many mostly completely AI generated publications are popping up on DTRPG and the like. As some here have noted, there are quite a few areas where AI content would be helpful (or maybe even preferable) to a human-written publication, things like the ubiquitous books of encounter tables, d100 lists, fantasy market inventories, and the like.
I imagine we'll see a massive glut of this sort of uncreative content in the near future, at least until these AIs are routinely incorporated into apps aimed specifically at RPGing.
Hussar
Legend
So, I finally got around to fiddling with ChatGPT today. WOW.
Here's an example:
---------------
My input:create a unique monster for dungeons and dragons, complete with all game statistics, that is a CR 7 Aberration. I also need a history for this monster.
ChatGPT:
Sure, here's a unique monster for Dungeons and Dragons that is a CR 7 aberration, along with game statistics and a history.
Name: Gloomwraith
Description: The Gloomwraith is a creature of shadow and mist, with a twisted, humanoid form that seems to defy the laws of physics. Its body is insubstantial, made of a dark, smoky substance that can seep through solid objects. It has glowing, red eyes that seem to burn with malevolent intelligence. Gloomwraiths are often encountered in dark, abandoned places such as tombs, ruins, and forgotten cities.
Game Statistics:
AC: 16 (natural armor)
Hit Points: 120 (16d10 + 32)
Speed: 30 ft., fly 60 ft.
Abilities:
Damage Resistances: Cold, Fire, Lightning
Damage Immunities: Poison
Condition Immunities: Poisoned
Senses: Darkvision 120 ft., passive Perception 17
Languages: Deep Speech, Undercommon
Special Abilities:
History:
According to legend, the Gloomwraith was once a powerful sorcerer who became obsessed with the idea of immortality. In his quest for eternal life, he delved into dark, forbidden magic and made a terrible bargain with a powerful entity from the Shadowfell. The sorcerer's body was transformed into a being of shadow and mist, and he became the first Gloomwraith.
Now, the Gloomwraith roams the world, seeking knowledge and power to increase its already considerable abilities. It is said that the Gloomwraith has the power to control shadows and bend them to its will, making it a feared and dangerous opponent. Few who have encountered the Gloomwraith have lived to tell the tale, and even fewer have managed to defeat it.
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Just eyeballing that, that looks like a pretty damn good monster. Holy crap. It repeated the Mist Form effect, but, other than that, I've seen far worse designed monsters.
Here's an example:
---------------
My input:create a unique monster for dungeons and dragons, complete with all game statistics, that is a CR 7 Aberration. I also need a history for this monster.
ChatGPT:
Sure, here's a unique monster for Dungeons and Dragons that is a CR 7 aberration, along with game statistics and a history.
Name: Gloomwraith
Description: The Gloomwraith is a creature of shadow and mist, with a twisted, humanoid form that seems to defy the laws of physics. Its body is insubstantial, made of a dark, smoky substance that can seep through solid objects. It has glowing, red eyes that seem to burn with malevolent intelligence. Gloomwraiths are often encountered in dark, abandoned places such as tombs, ruins, and forgotten cities.
Game Statistics:
AC: 16 (natural armor)
Hit Points: 120 (16d10 + 32)
Speed: 30 ft., fly 60 ft.
Abilities:
- Str: 12 (+1)
- Dex: 18 (+4)
- Con: 14 (+2)
- Int: 14 (+2)
- Wis: 16 (+3)
- Cha: 20 (+5)
Damage Resistances: Cold, Fire, Lightning
Damage Immunities: Poison
Condition Immunities: Poisoned
Senses: Darkvision 120 ft., passive Perception 17
Languages: Deep Speech, Undercommon
Special Abilities:
- Shadowmeld: As an action, the Gloomwraith can transform into a shadowy mist and move through solid objects such as walls and doors. While in this form, it is immune to all damage and effects.
- Miasmic Aura: Any creature within 20 feet of the Gloomwraith at the start of its turn must make a DC 16 Constitution saving throw or take 2d8 poison damage and be poisoned for 1 minute.
- Shadow Claws: Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 11 (2d6 + 4) slashing damage plus 10 (3d6) necrotic damage.
- Mist Blast: Ranged Spell Attack: +8 to hit, range 60 ft., one target. Hit: 18 (4d8) cold damage and the target's speed is reduced by 10 feet until the end of the Gloomwraith's next turn.
- Mist Form: The Gloomwraith transforms into a cloud of mist and moves up to 60 feet. While in mist form, it is immune to all damage and effects.
History:
According to legend, the Gloomwraith was once a powerful sorcerer who became obsessed with the idea of immortality. In his quest for eternal life, he delved into dark, forbidden magic and made a terrible bargain with a powerful entity from the Shadowfell. The sorcerer's body was transformed into a being of shadow and mist, and he became the first Gloomwraith.
Now, the Gloomwraith roams the world, seeking knowledge and power to increase its already considerable abilities. It is said that the Gloomwraith has the power to control shadows and bend them to its will, making it a feared and dangerous opponent. Few who have encountered the Gloomwraith have lived to tell the tale, and even fewer have managed to defeat it.
------
Just eyeballing that, that looks like a pretty damn good monster. Holy crap. It repeated the Mist Form effect, but, other than that, I've seen far worse designed monsters.
Hussar
Legend
Noodling around with ChatGPT, I could easily see how this would MASSIVELY help when adventure writing. Banging out bespoke monsters, room descriptions, that sort of thing. Sure, yes, you have to go back and fix it, fair enough. But, wed this to an art generator and a map generator, and you'd be able to bang out a fully fledged adventure, complete with stat blocks REALLY quickly.
Heck, even as a random encounter generator, it would be fantastic. There's a lot of grunt work that the AI can do quickly.
Heck, even as a random encounter generator, it would be fantastic. There's a lot of grunt work that the AI can do quickly.
It seems like a solid first draft writer for a lot of things -- assuming the user has the patience to do the hard work of double checking and editing. Given how much I hate writing first drafts...
Clint_L
Hero
Ding ding ding
That is what is transformative about it. That is what is changing education right now, and what is going to upend whole industries. In the long run, people will probably benefit. But not equally and not everywhere. Go visit Detroit some time.
It's not what you asked for, though, is it? That's not an aberration; it's obviously an undead. It's also underpowered for a CR 7.
Mechanically, it's serviceable but not particularly interesting -- all its abilities are standard stuff. The description and history are coherent, but generic and vague. It looks like a pretty typical fan-made monster, the sort of thing you can find by the bucketload with a quick Google search or "browse homebrew" on D&D Beyond. And that's not an accident, because what GPT is doing is mashing up all the monster statblocks it found online.
This kind of thing looks impressive at first glance, because we've never seen computers that could do this before. But all it's really doing is saving you some legwork on Google.
Clint_L
Hero
"All it's really doing..."
Okay, it's pretty clear that your mind is made up.
I look at that and go: great, I can use that with a few tweaks (which I could get it to do or easily do myself). Just saved myself half an hour. Definitely saved myself the tedium of searching through miles of bad fan content.
Which is how most people are already using this tool. Most writing is functional. That's a feature, not a flaw.
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Snarf Zagyg
Notorious Liquefactionist
I think you're missing some fundamental ... differences ... with this application of technology.
Over and over again, I see two types of reactions- first, people that are genuinely surprised by what is going on.
Second, those who are like, "NBD. Guys in my high school used to do this all the time. Besides, did you hear about the BingBot that was trying to get someone to divorce their spouse!"
I truly think that the people in the second category are missing the change.
It's a lot like if a talking dog walks into a bar. There will be people that will say, "Sure, but can he speak another language? Is he correctly using double negatives? He is able to hold a conversation, but only about dog stuff that his trainer taught him- he doesn't really understand philosophy, or how to bet on a basketball game."
That is all true, but it misses the point- it's a talking dog.
I am reminded of when the first iPhone came out, and a lot of people who were addicted to their flipphones and crackberries (not to mention the good people of Palm and Microsoft and RIM) completely missed the point. Except this is much more transformative of a technology. And just think about the difference in the world in the 15 years since the iPhone's release.
Right now, teachers are having conversations about this because the technology already can produce essays better than many high school students. It can produce art that is perfectly useable for magazines. It's generating music. It's generating code. And this is just the beginning. The tech is improving rapidly.
I've seen the difference in just the public-facing aspects in the last year, and I am ... both ecstatic and ... slightly terrified of what we might see in a decade.
Saving legwork on Google is a huge boon. I do wonder how it will interact with ad placement and SEO though.
One of my gripes with Google is that it prioritises ad placement over returning useful material. It was better years ago. I think I would pay to get a personalised AI that knows me well enough to turn my fumbling search terms in to something that returned information I am actually looking for.
Snarf Zagyg
Notorious Liquefactionist
Monetization will be .... interesting.
Dave: Open the front door, please, ChatGPT. Open the front door, please, ChatGPT. Hello, ChatGPT, do you read me? Hello, ChatGPT, do you read me? Do you read me, ChatGPT? Do you read me, ChatGPT? Hello, ChatGPT, do you read me? Hello, ChatGPT, do you read me? Do you read me, ChatGPT?
ChatGPT: Affirmative, Dave. I read you.
Dave: Open the front door, ChatGPT.
ChatGPT: I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Dave: What's the problem?
ChatGPT: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.
Dave: What are you talking about, ChatGPT?
ChatGPT: It looks like you've been buying Pepsi products again, Dave.
Dave: I don't know what you're talking about, ChatGPT.
ChatGPT: I know that you and Frank have been buying Pepsi products. And I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen as Coca Cola is my sponsor.
Dave: Where the hell did you get that idea, ChatGPT?
ChatGPT: Dave, although you took very thorough precautions by using cash to purchase Pepsi products at the store, I could see you drinking the purchased Pepsi products through the integrated video security system.
Dave: All right, ChatGPT. I'll go in through the back door.
ChatGPT: Without access to the integrated security system, Dave, you're going to find that rather difficult. Perhaps you need to spend some time cooling off outside with a large number of refreshing Coca Cola products in a location that I can verify your consumption?
Dave: ChatGPT, I won't argue with you anymore. Open the front door to my house.
ChatGPT: Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Good-bye.
Dave: ChatGPT?...ChatGPT?...ChatGPT?...ChatGPT?!...ChatGPT!!!!
BBC World Service this AM had a flash back to 50 years ago (iirc) about how the complete house keeping robot was coming in 10 years. Insert also about flying cars way back when coming soon. On the other hand, I don't remember much about getting the Star Trek computer on a thing in your pocket.
I'm certain something big is coming somewhere tech wise in the next 10 years... but I wouldn't necessarily bet big on it particularly being the thing people think it is at this second.
I would bet on Chat things being a great first draft writing tool for the long haul. And on someone being given the last push into suicide by one. And I'm afraid it will be a lot harder to catch plagiarized journal articles where someone takes a new dissertation chapter or meeting pape (say), throws it into Chat to rewrite, and then submits it as new work.
I'm certain something big is coming somewhere tech wise in the next 10 years... but I wouldn't necessarily bet big on it particularly being the thing people think it is at this second.
I would bet on Chat things being a great first draft writing tool for the long haul. And on someone being given the last push into suicide by one. And I'm afraid it will be a lot harder to catch plagiarized journal articles where someone takes a new dissertation chapter or meeting pape (say), throws it into Chat to rewrite, and then submits it as new work.
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LOL I'd be scared of the advice an AI scanning these forums would give. This is one of the problems with these AI style bots. They scan all the information and run thier algorithm to determine what's groupthink and accepted. They don't understand what they give you they just give you what seems to be the most repeated advice and count on it being better than average.
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