Defense Bonuses & Damage Reduction/Conversion

[drnuncheon]

I'd say that weapons ignore armor based DR in the event of a critical hit. This reflects hitting one of those less armored spots.

I wouldn't even say that - the doubled damage from the critical ought to be enough to penetrate the plate's DR of 4, and if it's not - oh well, you weren't strong enough to take advantage of the opening. DR 4 is not out of the range of any reasonable weapon, especially on a crit.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing a more complex armor-as-DR system, where chain (for example) is more effective against slashing and less against piercing.

J
...which is ironic because I always hated those weapon adjustments vs armor type charts in 1e...

 

[Calico_Jack73]

...which is ironic because I always hated those weapon adjustments vs armor type charts in 1e...

I actually liked that about OD&D though if I remember correctly it gave bonuses against Armor Class instead of Armor Type.

 

[drnuncheon]

I actually liked that about OD&D though if I remember correctly it gave bonuses against Armor Class instead of Armor Type.

IIRC the table was called 'Weapon Adjustments vs. Armor Type' but it was based on AC - but my 1e PHB is at home, probably down in the basement somewhere.

J
the 1e DMG is still on my shelf, though

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

We're using the Defense rules with Armor as Damage Reduction.

For the Defense part, I changed the 1st level bonuses from +1,+2,+3,+5 to +0, +1,+2,+3. Armor adds the listed bonus and damage reduction from UA. Defense and armor bonus DOES NOT stack.

If you keep the original defense adjustment, you'll find that the tanks have a high armor class AND a high damage reduction. You can't hurt them. Lowering the Defense bonus makes them a viable target for attacks, but the DR keeps them from getting hit too hard.

It's been working great for us but we also use the Wounds/Vitality system.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

It's been working great for us but we also use the Wounds/Vitality system.

Yeah, I'm planning on using the W/V system for my Midnight campaign to take some of the healing stress off of our ONE Channeller.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Yeah, I'm planning on using the W/V system for my Midnight campaign to take some of the healing stress off of our ONE Channeller.

Yeah, casting spells in Midnight is bad... It ain't the lack of spell power you have to worry about. It's the astirax around the corner.

 

[Mercule]

Defense and armor bonus DOES NOT stack.

Just for clarification on what I'm doing, since it appears to be unclear: I'm not using the full Fighter defense bonus. Fighters use the same table as Wizards, plus they get to add their Armor to it as a class ability. No other class gets to do this.

The reason for this is to give Fighters a greater incentive to use armor than the other classes.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Just for clarification on what I'm doing, since it appears to be unclear: I'm not using the full Fighter defense bonus. Fighters use the same table as Wizards, plus they get to add their Armor to it as a class ability. No other class gets to do this.

The reason for this is to give Fighters a greater incentive to use armor than the other classes.

The way I see it, the DR added to the armor offsets the reduction to the armor's AC bonus. It is self balanced. If you stack on the Defense bonus, you'll end up with enemies swinging at each other round after round and never really hurting each other. The few times they do hit, damage will be reduced.

I ran several playtests before introducing these systems into my game, and my conclusion was that, if DR is to be included, the character's AC must go down. If not, combat lasts about twice as long.

 

[Psion]

How do you figure that? A chain shirt gives AC +2 and DR 2/-. A dagger does 1d4 damage I believe. You've got a 50% chance to get some damage by the armor unless daggers do 1d2 damage now.

Whoops. I think I was thinking about someone else's take on armor as DR.

At any rate, that makes me a little dubious about combining them. The fact that they still give an armor bonus makes it more dubious to combine DR and class AC bonus.

 

[Caliber]

I can certainly understand your players point. When you're bring hit for 3d6+15 (the amount a Fire Giant [a CR 10 critter!] does with a greatsword before any Power Attack) 4/- DR doesn't do much. Sure you're only taking 3d6+11. But when he hits you twice and hits the guy next to you without DR once, you still got whupped.

I have the WoT book so I know what class feature you're talking about. Unfortunetly, I'm not really sure how you could balance it. Possibly change his Defense progression to the next better? Not enough to equal the Swashbuckler, but enough to put him a bit closer to the 'Buckler's total?