Deities & Demigods!

[Shemeska]

BTW, are you one of those "Gods shouldn't have stats" people?

Very much so.


And for what it's worth, the only reason my first post was a bit acerbic was because I didn't recognize the original post as a quotation from Gygax.

 

[MulhorandSage]

For what it's worth, I'm not a "Gods must have stats person" and I still thought the 3e Deities and Demi-gods book was pretty good at trying to covering the major pantheons in broad strokes. It's not going to be the most well-worn book in my collection, but I can see putting it to good use at some point down the road. I don't quite understand the ire it provokes.

 

[Staffan]

They should've done this along the lines of the FR book, "Faiths and Pantheons".

Not Faiths & Pantheons. Faiths & Avatars, the vastly superior 2e book (and the companion volumes Powers & Pantheons [covering Faerûnean demigods plus the Mulhorandi/Untheric and Chultean pantheons] and Demihuman Deities [covering the elf, dwarf, drow, halfling and gnome pantheons]).

BTW, are you one of those "Gods shouldn't have stats" people?

I don't have anything against stats for gods in and of themselves. I just think they're a waste of space and the designer's time.

In Faiths & Pantheons, each of the divine statblocks take up approximately 1½ pages (and I've read a comment by the designer to the effect that writing up those statblocks took a lot more effort than the page count would indicate), plus 11 pages that explain what the stuff in the stat blocks means (6 explaining the statblock entries and 5 explaining the salient abilities). 30 gods * 1.5 pages + 11 pages = 56 pages. The whole book is 224 pages - that means that 25% of the book is spent on things that, for approximately 95% of those buying it, are useless. Those 56 pages could have been spent on more description of the churches of the gods, or on "upgrading" more of the lesser gods to getting a full description, or, heck, more spells, feats, items and prestige classes.

 

[danzig138]

Very much so.

I thought so. You people give me the creeps. Just kidding. I figured you were from reading your various post on these and the WotC boards. I don't agree with that particular viewpoint, but I completely understand how people who think that deities shouldn't have stats might not appreciate Deities and Demigods. It's just that some people get extremely angry about the stats sometimes, and it's odd. I do think that WotC should produce a book about the faiths and churches of the gods detailing their place in the applicable (Greyhawk if core) world. I've found some decent fan material over the years, but an official book would fill a void.







And in the last page, they could stat the Lady of Pain.

 

[S'mon]

Well, I think this is rubbish (re 3e D&DG), but luckily I’m on Quasqueton’s ignore list so my opinion won’t offend him. It’s good for the GM to have an idea re the gods & beliefs of his campaign world, but 3e D&DG is widely regarded as a terrible book of little use to anyone. Even Upper_Krust, the king of deity-gaming advocacy, told me not to bother getting it. Personally I still use my 1e Legends & Lore a bit, it has a lot more pantheons than 3e D&DG, but it's hardly indispensable, any dictionary of mythology would be a good start.

 

[danzig138]

I don't have anything against stats for gods in and of themselves. I just think they're a waste of space and the designer's time.

See, I don't see them as a waste of space or time. I've been running games for 16 years, and the only time I've ever need stats for a god was in a Rifts game where one of the PCs was a Babylonian demigod.
But I like to have them. I have (and have had for a long time) an idea for a Greyhawk campaignt that will involve combat with one or more gods (based in some part on the Saberhagen books about the swords). It's nice to have the stats available. I'd much rather have someone else do the work and then tweak it to my needs than do all the work myself.

I am mostly just shocked by how angry some people are about the book. Some people act like it was some kind of personal betrayal, and I don't get that, since I can't figure out what they were expecting. It's Deities and Demigods. I figured right off the bat that it would be like the first Deities and Demigods and have stats for the Gods. I never understood the hatred - it's not like they put out a book called Churches and Faiths - A Handbook for Clerical Characters and then filled that with deific stats.

 

[S'mon]

1e D&DG = amusing for the inclusion of the Lovecraftian deities. Dunno why Shub-Niggurath was less powerful than Cthulhu, but no big deal. The entire book was so bad and so useless that it was campy and amusing for that fact alone: a classic by virtue of being so kitchy. I treasure my copy

3e D&DG = the crystal pepsi or new coke of D&D books: Ill conceived, poorly designed, left a rancid taste in your mouth that you kept desperately trying to get rid of. Wretched, wretched design, poor implimentation, and utterly and completely useless. A waste of paper and good artwork.

I kinda agree on 1e's kitsch value. I thought 2e was bland & boring though.

 

[S'mon]

Re stats, I think Immortals Set had the right approach - generic deity stats that take all of 1 page, for all the Immortals.

 

[Henry]

Shemeska and I have had brief conversations in the past about the omnipotence of gods; I used to be the same way, but I changed my views as my style has changed. I don't mind it if a player either has something to do with the death of a god, or even has the cunning and power to CHALLENGE a god, because I'm a fan of the Greek and Norse Pantheons and stories, where heroes challenged gods to contests of skill or strength, and sometimes won. I don't have gods dying willy-nilly in my games, but if a player had that as a goal, I might put a believeable means to the end in the game, letting it cost them more than they might wish to sacrifice.

 

[radferth]

Its getting harder and harder to avoid metaboarding when replying to big Q's posts.