Delay to move together or ready?

[FreeTheSlaves]

Okay here is a theoretical scenario where 2 PC's need to withdraw 60' to safety (they have speed 30'). They 'must' have to move off together for some really important (and not contrived) reason.

A) Can the faster one delay to the slower ones initiative count and they both use the withdraw action to succeed?

Or

B) Must the faster one ready to limited withdraw when the slower one withdraws, and so die a grisly death?

 

[Orm]

In short, A).

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

No two things ever happen at the same initiative count, therefore it is impossible in D&D for this to happen simultaneously in a mechanical sense.

That being said, I'd go with A), and count that as "simultaneous" for purposes of "Contrived Scenario X."

 

[William_2]

As above, although two creatures may have the same initiative, which one goes first is still resolved as part of the combat system. So, your two characters can move 30’ feet in the same 6 seconds, even very close together, but according to the system they will be 30’ apart for at least some fraction of a second. If, for example, they are tied together, they would not be able to move 30’ during combat. Bit of a glitch, and I agree that if you have some need for characters to be able to do that, you should allow it. I don’t think the rules do, though. Weird.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

The actual example is of my ally and I delaying for the same initiative count to 5' step either side of our enemy and launch full attacks with flanking bonuses. By the RAW it appeared that one of us had to ready a 5' step and single attack rather than delaying for the full attack.

The issue with initiative is that there are a # of mechanics to ensure no simultaneous turns, which yeah, I think is a bit of a glitch.

(I was using another example to isolate any debate over the above tactic being over-powered or some such.)

 

[William_2]

Your example is not over-powered, it just isn’t going to happen under the rules. One of the characters will move and act before the other, no matter what route you use. There isn’t a way for one character to move, wait while another moves, and then attack, in a single round. Being in place for flanking full attacks the second round is easy, but the first round will only grant a flanking bonus to the second character to move into place. This difference does not even seem very significant to me. If either character has sneak attack, I would suggest they delay until the other one moves and attacks, and then moves in. Ready would not work, as that character would go first in that case. If they both have SA...well, the second round will still go well for them.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The actual example is of my ally and I delaying for the same initiative count to 5' step either side of our enemy and launch full attacks with flanking bonuses. By the RAW it appeared that one of us had to ready a 5' step and single attack rather than delaying for the full attack.

Actually, you don't even need anything nearly so complicated as this. I assume you are both 5' from your intended striking location?

The character with the highest initiative (hereafter, you) readies an action to step 5' and attack when his ally attacks.

The ally steps 5' and attacks, triggering the readied action. Before the ally's attack is mechanically resolved, you step 5' and attack. You and your ally now both fulfill the conditions of flanking. You are flanking when you attack, and your ally is flanking when he attacks, after your attack is resolved.

Note that you can take your 5' step before you ready, if you wish. Also, note that Ready is a standard action. Thus, you could move up to your speed into place, and then ready your attack for when your ally steps into position.

In short, there are ways to do this already without stretching or bending the rules.

EDIT: Oh, yeah - no full attacks for both of you. Sorry! Thanks for pointing it out!

 

[RigaMortus]

Actually, you don't even need anything nearly so complicated as this. I assume you are both 5' from your intended striking location?

The character with the highest initiative (hereafter, you) readies an action to step 5' and attack when his ally attacks.

The ally steps 5' and attacks, triggering the readied action. Before the ally's attack is mechanically resolved, you step 5' and attack. You and your ally now both fulfill the conditions of flanking. You are flanking when you attack, and your ally is flanking when he attacks, after your attack is resolved.

Note that you can take your 5' step before you ready, if you wish. Also, note that Ready is a standard action. Thus, you could move up to your speed into place, and then ready your attack for when your ally steps into position.

In short, there are ways to do this already without stretching or bending the rules.

Well you can only Ready a Standard Action, which only allows a single attack. The original poster wanted to get a Full Attack in.

 

[William_2]

Yes, that won’t yield full attacks. Perhaps it works as a way to get two people flanking and thus sneak attacking, though. Ingenious.

 

[Nail]

So, to be clear: You CANNOT both get full attacks given your scenario. I rules are meant to work that way.

Still, at low levels (and no iterative attacks): who cares?