Deluxe Gaming Products - Lessons from Ptolus

[MojoGM]

I wouldn't do deluxe things. But it really angers me that the things people are saying should be "deluxe" aren't the industry standard.
First off, indexes and glossaries ought to be mandatory, if a book doesn't have them it should be laughed off the RPG stage and subjected to a harsh slamming when being reviewed. Cogent, logical 1-2-3 organization should be mandatory, not deluxe. Put all the things you need to make a character IN ORDER. Basics, feats, skills, equipment etc, in order as needed. Not half assed, some here, some there, flip back and forth through a 200 page book without an index to make a character. Anything over 15 dollars should have full color or at the very least lavish illustrations. Not sketches from the guy in the copy room, art from a pro. That is the absolute bare minimum in organization, structure, and art that I will accept in any further purchases, anything less I don't buy it.

True, I'd expect a index/glossary from any product, but we all know that isn't the reality unfortunately.

But Ptolus takes this to a new level, on each page some words are in bold type, and on a sidebar it tells you where to look for more information on these. That goes the extra distance in my opinion.

 

[MojoGM]

there is no excuse for a book to be more than 50 bucks.

For 120 bucks i had better be transported to Ptolus.

I disagree, if a book/product has a value of more than $50, the book/product should be priced at more than $50.

I don't understand this notion that there should be a cap for RPG products. I personally want to see more deluxe products aimed at consumers who can afford to pay for a little more than the basics. I also want to see value for my money, of course, but if a product shows that it has value to me, I'll pay whatever I deem to be reasonable.

Especially if a product saves me time. Give me something that is a DM timesaver and I'll pay a good amount for it. Ptolus is a bargain to me just taking the time into consideration, but when you add in the fact that while I'm running it I wont't have to buy many RPG products (won't HAVE to, but will. Let's not kid ourselves) it saves me even more money.

But, as I said, that's me. Others may disagree.

Someone mentioned a mega-adventure with pre-painted miniatures and maps for all the encounters. Yeah, I'd pay for that. Especially a dungeon. Not an huge dungeon, but give me several levels, pre-painted miniatures for all the encounters, maps that can be played on (like, map tiles for each of the room) and I'd pay $100+ for it. I figure I'd get that much enjoyment out of it, and if it saved me anywhere from 5-10 hours of work designing it myself, $100 would be a good bargain.

 

[johnnype]

Iron Kingdoms Character Guide: Full Metal Fantasy, Vol. 1 400 pages $40
Iron Kingdoms World Guide: Full Metal Fantasy, Vol. 2 400 pages $40

And let's not forget the 208 page Five Fingers: Port of Deceit for $35. That's 1,008 pages for $115. And the one thing the Iron Kingdoms has that Ptolus is, IMO, seriously defficient in is a style all it's own. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to own Ptolus but it is surprisingly generic and, dare I say it, bland. I get no vibe, feel or flavor from the setting at all. I think Monte intentionaly made it generic and built it around the rules. I think he says as much. I would have done it differently but that's just me.

 

[Voadam]

I can't think of anything that would make me pay $100 for a single RPG product. I was tempted by WLD at $40 but passed on it. I generally stick to a monthly budget of $25 of pdfs. At paizo that is one dragon issue and 5 old edition D&D books. $100 is 4 months of budgeting and 25 old edition books. Or a bunch of big $15 SSS d20 sourcebook pdfs where I can use the rules content in my 3.5 games. I have a ton of old edition ones I want in pdf, first the ones I have in print, then the ones I don't.

Maybe a bulk pdf sale. All of a company's titles in pdf if they have enough that I want. If I save enough on one big sale I might do it. But even then probably not.

I have pretty much all I feel I want badly. I want a ton more but nothing is an absolute must buy. So I pick and choose for value and stay within my budget and buy for the value to me I can get when doing so.

 

[Fishbone]

I'm in that same situation. I've got more game systems than I feel I'll ever use, and I'm interested in another 3 or 4 but nothing that I'm going to be totally distraught over(Here's looking at you Talislanta, Ramlar, and Artesia!!!)
Its just the thing, premium is overrated to me. I'd rather have a spellbook, the core book, a setting book, and a bestiary/menagerie/monster manual than 1 big honkin' book. I just feel that given time and different teams working on the books it can be just as good, if not better, than the deluxe stuff.

 

[an_idol_mind]

I would consider paying out Ptolus money if there were a huge mega adventure out there. Something like Night Below, but cranked up to eleven.

Beyond adventures, I don't think there's anything I'd spend a ton of money on in the RPG industry. I dislike lots of rulebooks, so I wouldn't spend much on rules. And I like my campaign worlds somewhat barebone and open to a lot of tweaking, so something like Ptolus isn't up my alley, either.

 

[Voadam]

I would consider paying out Ptolus money if there were a huge mega adventure out there. Something like Night Below, but cranked up to eleven.

Take your pick

Rappan Athuk Reloaded for adventurers levels 1-20 $49 http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=12529&affiliate_id=17596

Ruins of the Dragonlord 1-20 $31.47 http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catal...h=161_249&products_id=2723&affiliate_id=17596

Drow War three parts $24.50 each
Book 1 levels 1-10 http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catal...h=161_249&products_id=2347&affiliate_id=17596

Book 2 levels 11-20
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catal...h=161_249&products_id=3464&affiliate_id=17596

Book 3 levels 21-30
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catal...h=161_249&products_id=3838&affiliate_id=17596

Coils of set 1-13 $12
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=48&products_id=3440&affiliate_id=17596

Trouble at Durbenford 8-14 $24.50
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=48&products_id=630&affiliate_id=17596

A little smaller scale

Tomb of Abysthor 2-8 $6
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=48&products_id=755&affiliate_id=17596

Banewarrens 6-10 $6.67
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catal...ath=49_554&products_id=520&affiliate_id=17596

As well as Shackled City, WLD, and I hear good things about the new red hand WotC one.

 

[Hussar]

Someone mentioned a mega-adventure with pre-painted miniatures and maps for all the encounters. Yeah, I'd pay for that. Especially a dungeon. Not an huge dungeon, but give me several levels, pre-painted miniatures for all the encounters, maps that can be played on (like, map tiles for each of the room) and I'd pay $100+ for it. I figure I'd get that much enjoyment out of it, and if it saved me anywhere from 5-10 hours of work designing it myself, $100 would be a good bargain.

The time issue is the clincher for me. My time is worth a couple of bucks an hour. I bought the WLD for 100 bucks after shipping (got a bit of a deal) and haven't looked back. I'm now completely 100% prepped for my weekly game until sometime after Christmas! Without a word of a lie. I'll likely tinker with stuff as time goes by, but, I could do absolutely no prep work for the next 4 months and run a game. That's worth a heck of a lot more than 100 bucks to me.

I look at it this way. We've just played 53 sessions of the WLD. We play 3 hour sessions. Five players plus myself have been entertained for 150 hours for 100 bucks. We're going to be entertained for probably another 100 hours more. That's just stupid cheap.

Yeah, for me, the primary selling point for deluxe product is how much work is already done for me. If I can read it, and run it without having to do a bunch of work on my own, then it's more than worth it.

 

[ssampier]

Yeah, Ptolus is comparable to a large college textbook, both in size and price. Not a big shock to the system viewed that way. (And heck, most of us will get more use out of it than our old textbooks. )

Okay - where's my Ptolus college-level course to make full use of this material?

 

[Jack Morgan]

I'm in the nothing crowd- i'm interested in Ptolis, but I know I'd never run it. I'd like to read it, just to see how it's put together; but i can't justify the expense. I've been gaming since 1978-79 and I've bought three setting books in the entire time, all used for less than 10 bucks. One i used for a sesssion before i moved the characters of the map and started doing my own thing, the other two i bought recently just to read, knowing full well I'd never use them. i do not think i've ever bought an adventure. As far as games go, these days I tend to buy the first edition of a game whan the second edition comes out*. This is the ultra cheap way to go, btw. I tend to pay more in shipping than i pay for the books themselves.

* I did buy MM2e and True20 new, but it was with birthday money and I got a deal. I'm disturbingly cheap, i guess.