Demon dying to fast

[abri]

Hi evryone.
I have problem with demons and devils in my campaign:
Demons are supposed to be quite common in the world we play in , so my players have kind of specialized themselves in the matter.
How do I make a demon scary?
Appart from the big boys (Mariliths/Balor/pitfiend) which I don't want to send just yet, outsiders seems to last a big max of 12s against my group of 8 L10 PC (3 wizards, 2 clerics, 1 fighter, 1 bard, 1 ranger). There is no way 1 creature is going to out-magic this group, so I kind of look for demons with good HtH capacities, but haven't seen one that even come close with scaring them.
Any fellow DM has any suggestions?
Please help demons not being trampled by adventurers.

 

[Nightfall]

Leonine Demons along with Blood Horrors work fine. Skivers aren't demons BUT they are evil outsiders.

I'd also wait to get Armies of the Abyss, as I'm sure there will be SOME demons in there.

 

[Cergorach]

Maybe a bit too obvious, but use more than one opponent...

A couple of Vrocks could do wonders... *grins evily*

Also, these creatures are pretty intelligent, learn all of their abilities, how they work game wise, and how they affect the party members. Also take a look at the party member capabilities and create effective strategies based on those abilities (these creatures are ancient and have fought a lot). If the creatures have a weakness, don't be afraid to give them some magical items to compensate for that weakness.

The main reason we play is to give the characters (and their players) a challenge, no one likes puch over Devils & Demons...

You might want to take a look at Necromancers Devils and Demons adventure compilation, it has some great ideas and gives you an idea how to play D&D most effectively...

 

[Lisa Nadazdy]

Also, throw in the unexpected... if the players know what a demon can do, then there is no fear, because they can plan for it. If demons show traits that catch them off guard, they may well get a bit nervous...

 

[rounser]

my players have kind of specialized themselves in the matter.

I say ignore the knee-jerk reaction to neutralise their abilities for that - it's not fair on the players, and a hallmark of bad DMing. Upping the opposition is fair, tailoring it specifically to neutralise their fortes isn't - subtle difference but an important one, I think...

How do I make a demon scary?

If you mean "more powerful" by that as your post implies, that's easy. Give it class levels. You've already got a tonne of justification for having classed demons because they're common in your world, so no problems there.

Admittedly this is a fair bit more work, but it could be cut down by using Jamis Buck's NPC generator (unfortunately that doesn't have the demons as selectable races, but you should be able to use that as a launching point).

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'd be tempted to just let the demons hold off on the food for a couple of days, perhaps once a week at first but gradually cutting down their intake more and more. It is important that they remember to keep drinking water though.

Oh, sorry, the title meant "dying *too* fast"

Sorry, couldn't resist it!

Point 1: the party is 8 characters rather than the canonical 4. As such, you would expect a CR12 encounter to be mildly challenging rather than CR10. CR16 would be a serious challenge. In the case of demons you would probably need to raise the CR even higher since, as you say, they are somewhat optimised to face them.

Point 2: numbers=scary. Single bad guys go down quickly to a party no matter how buff they are. A group of less powerful creatures (especially those who work synergystically together) is much more likely to cause a party grief.

Point3: What they can't see and don't know is more scary. In a horror movie, once the creature actually appears on the screen the shock and horror lessens. Use more demons behind the scenes. Don't teleport in and attack them directly - use guerilla tactics, shoot and scoot. Even better, grab hostages, threaten innocents, give the PCs horrible dilemmas "Either stand and watch me murder all these orphans, or strike me down and complete your journey to the Dark Side Mwahahahahah". e.g. Demon possesses the body of a young pregnant woman who is the sister of one of the PCs and cannot be killed while she is alive.

Hope these ideas help

 

[milo]

Use a half-fiend enemy who has a few levels of barbarian into the prestige class frenzied berzerker coupled with a demon or two. The half-fiend could be one of their children.

 

[Darklone]

Hmm

Never forget to use simple techniques like Hallowed Darkness, Deeper Darkness and silence...

Use devils that can make Darkness at will. That'll screw a lot and the demons and devils are very amused.

 

[Cergorach]

I say ignore the knee-jerk reaction to neutralise their abilities for that - it's not fair on the players, and a hallmark of bad DMing. Upping the opposition is fair, tailoring it specifically to neutralise their fortes isn't - subtle difference but an important one, I think...

Neutralising abilities is not good (it implies no effort), on the other hand countering certain abilities that the party might have is realistic and gives the party a challenge.

For example: Tanar'ri are not resistant to Sonic damage, it would be obvious that their enemies would exploit this advantage, thus intellegent and experienced Demons would carry around a potion ofSonic resistance. Not many hit points, potion of Endurance. Low AC, mage armor and/or shield. These are very simple, but you could go way more complex...

Just because the players have characters that are specialised in killing Demons and Devils, doesn't mean that the Demons and Devils (aka.The DM) can't do the same, especially when the characters are famous (10th level generally qualifies for that).

IMHO the point of playing isn't to kill characters, just make them think that they will get killed when they mess up (and do it). Players should be afraid to let their characters 'die', playing against their strong points and exploiting their weaknesses is a sure way to get them on edge and make the encounter a challenge.

But it all depends on what kind of game you and your players enjoy. Personally, i don't want to DM in a group that gets angry (at me) if their favorite character gets killed due to his/her own stupidity. Luckely, i have a group of wonderfull players that are developing their characters in all ways, seeing death as another challenge to overcome (lucky for them their priest can cast Resurrection)...

 

[rounser]

Use a half-fiend enemy who has a few levels of barbarian into the prestige class frenzied berzerker coupled with a demon or two. The half-fiend could be one of their children.

Why would you bother with a half-fiend to do this? You could do it with a regular demon, no?