Demonic Lore

[BOZ]

found more info on Zanassu and his role in Faerun in the Empires of the Shining Sea boxed set (1998), page 90.

apparently, the aranea of Spider Swamp summoned him to fight Qysara Shoon V in 292 DR. Shoon was able to defeat Zanassu and send him back to his Abyssal lair, where Selvatarm eventually hunted him down and defeated him, replacing and impersonating him.

this info kind of defeats the idea that Lolth took over his realm from him, since i'm sure she had her own at the time (i think?).

 

[Grover Cleaveland]

this info kind of defeats the idea that Lolth took over his realm from him, since i'm sure she had her own at the time (i think?).

Rather, I think she took her second layer (Lolth's Web) from Zanassu. Her first layer (the Demonweb Pits) she already had.

See the 1st edition Manual of the Planes, page 103, which clearly gives Lolth dominion over both the 65th and 66th layers of the Abyss.

 

[Alzrius]

Rather, I think she took her second layer (Lolth's Web) from Zanassu. Her first layer (the Demonweb Pits) she already had.

See the 1st edition Manual of the Planes, page 103, which clearly gives Lolth dominion over both the 65th and 66th layers of the Abyss.

I don't know, the fact that she had two layers in an older product, and just one in later ones, seems to spell out that she used to rule both, but lost the 65th layer.

 

[Grover Cleaveland]

I don't know, the fact that she had two layers in an older product, and just one in later ones, seems to spell out that she used to rule both, but lost the 65th layer.

Could be. I tend to assume that just because something isn't mentioned doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that Lolth doesn't rule it (the various worlds described in Queen of the Demonweb Pits haven't been mentioned since then either, but Lolth probably still has a presence there).

But, I mean, your way works too. Either way, the 65th layer was probably formally Zanassu's (since the 66th seems to be her primary realm).

 

[BOZ]

that's certainly not an improbable theory. of course, like graz'zt, she simply could have controlled more than one layer for a long time. maybe lolth and/or selvatarm just killed zanassu in his realm and left him there to rot, never to look back. or maybe they did keep it, and maybe it might be a third realm beyond the 65th and 66th.

of course, saying that zanassu's realm was on the 65th and they just took it from him does tie it all up rather neatly, and sometimes the simplest explanation is the most probable. but i'm not the one to judge that, and the designers may not want to tie lolth's origins in with such a minor lord's so heavily.

 

[Grover Cleaveland]

Older edition references

Spyder-Fiend: Kakkuu, Spithriku, Phisarazu, Lycosidilith, Raklupis (Rod of Seven Parts, MCA4)

Kara-Tur Appendix: Krakentoa


Abyssal Bat (Planes of Chaos; AKA Varrangoin)
Equar, Charnalbalk (Dragon #243)
Shadow hounds (Giantcraft)
Bodak (PSMC1)
Eyewing (Monstrous Manual, MC4)
Fireshadow (MC4)
Demon Troll (Dragon #141)
Demonic Sawfly (Dragon # 252)
Dirtwraith (Dragon #270)
Fetch (MC4)
Gremlin (Monstrous Manual)
Hordling (PSMC1)
Narvaezan fiend (Savage Coast Monstrous Compendium)
Mara (MC11)
Quasit (MM, PSMC1)
Serpent Tree (Planes of Chaos)
Shadow Fiend (PSMC1)
Thunder Beast (MMII)
Tiefling (PSMC1)

 

[Baramay]

thanks Grover Cleveland for explaining the "Fiend Sage" and also thanks Boz for the link. I have not been able to search on Creature Catalog to my dismay.

Some more names from 2nd edition
Eleanor DeVille a succubus from The Book of Lairs II
From Iuz the Evil -(Baron) Kerzinen of Rookroost a baron cambion (half-fiend)
-Marionnen a major cambion(half-field)
-(General) Sindol, Commander of Iuz's Legion of the Black Death a baron cambion(half-fiend)

Let me know if you are still looking for more

 

[BOZ]

Kara-Tur Appendix: Krakentoa
Gremlin (Monstrous Manual)
Mara (MC11)

not so sure that these have any demonic or abyssal connection...

 

[Grover Cleaveland]

not so sure that these have any demonic or abyssal connection...

From the Kara-Tur Appendix: "The krakentua is a powerful demon spirit with an insatiable appetite for destruction..."

From the Forgotten Realms appendix II: "Mara are chaotic evil spirits that inhabit great bodies of stone... Mara are subserviant to tanar'ri and other powerful lower planar creatures of like alignment. Further, they can sense the presence of such creatures within a day's ride and move to aid or join them if possible. The creatures cannot gate mara in, however. If more than one chaotic evil planar creature is present, the mara obeys the most po werful. Typical simple commands that mara might receive from their master include orders to search here and there, to find and slay, or hold, a certain creature, and include a mental picture of the quarry or places to search for it.

"The exact mechanism by which mara occupy their stony bodies, and the way in which their spirits make their way from the lower planes to the Prime Material is unknown."

From Planes of Chaos, the Book of Chaos, page 19:

"The Abyss is large enough that creatures besides the tanar'ri can eke out a squalid, brutish life, but a creature's got to be tough and quick to survive. Some are mountains, behemoths, juggernauts of power that even the tanar'ri respect - creatures like bebeliths, bodaks, fireshadows, shinmus, water lords, and the greater varrangoin...

"Others are scavengers that hide in the cracks, scuttling into view only to snatch food and desperately trying to avoid attention. Abyssal scavengers include small fliers like galltrits, gremlins, mephits, shadow fiends, vargouilles, and lesser varrangoin.

"There's servant creatures that make themselves useful to far more powerful protectors: the spying eyewings, the lumbering mara, and trickster quasits. Fetch and yeth hounds also fall into this category."


Of the three, mara and gremlins are explicitly Abyssal natives. Krakentua, although they're chaotic evil demonic spirits, may arguably not be extraplanar depending on your campaign's cosmology.

 

[BOZ]

galltrits, gremlins and their ilk were never extraplanar before, to the best of my knowledge. that reference could very well be amended with "planar versions of the...". references are made all the time to elves, dwarves, and humans on the planes but we don't make the mistake of assuming that all elves, dwarves, and humans are extraplanar in origin.

as for the krakentua, well the kara-tur cosmology doesn't necessarily correspond to the great wheel, and calling something a "demon" doesn't mean it has a bit of similarity to a tanar'ri demon (other than alignment).

as for the mara, you're absolutely right, and my bad. i knew there was an animating spirit of some sort, probably planar, but did not recall that they were that implicitly tied in with the abyss.