Deploying Golems In The Campaign

[NoOneofConsequence]

It only takes "just" 220 years to pay off the golem's raw materials if interest rates are effectively zero, if the economy values a gold piece now no more than a gold piece centuries from now.

I have no reference but I understand that inflation didn't exist as we understand it until after the industrial revolution and it certainly didn't exist in it's modern form until the twentieth century - a very high minimum rate of production is required. In pre modern societies 220 years could see the collapse of coin producing kingdoms and the golem might actually become cheaper due to "deflation".

 

[Storminator]

I have no reference but I understand that inflation didn't exist as we understand it until after the industrial revolution and it certainly didn't exist in it's modern form until the twentieth century - a very high minimum rate of production is required. In pre modern societies 220 years could see the collapse of coin producing kingdoms and the golem might actually become cheaper due to "deflation".

This is incorrect. In the old days the currency was fixed by the amount of metal in circulation. Generally, mines are worked (increasing the money supply) and the population grows (increasing the size of the economy). If those growth rates are in balance, prices are stable.

If a new supply of coin metal is suddenly discovered, your money supply suddenly increases dramatically, and your economy lags behind. Inflation results. The classic example is the discovery of the New World. The gold and silver supplies increased enormously. One of my favorite quotes of the era is "gold poured off Spain like rain off the rooftops."

You can also see inflation if your nation has a large trade surplus. If you keep exporting goods and drawing in coin, eventually you can debase your coins. The Moghul emperors of India actually pulled gold out of circulation to prevent inflation. Lots of Indian gold jewelry of ~1000 AD is due to this fixing of gold to remove it from circulation.

But steady, managed inflation as we typically think of it is a modern phenomenon. The ancient world had sudden, sharp bouts of inflation. That's why ancient interest rates were so high. You never knew when one of these shocks would hit your money supply, and ruin the value of the loan.

PS

 

[NoOneofConsequence]

This is incorrect. In the old days the currency was fixed by the amount of metal in circulation. Generally, mines are worked (increasing the money supply) and the population grows (increasing the size of the economy). If those growth rates are in balance, prices are stable.

I stand corrected.

 

[mmadsen]

I have no reference but I understand that inflation didn't exist as we understand it until after the industrial revolution and it certainly didn't exist in it's modern form until the twentieth century - a very high minimum rate of production is required. In pre modern societies 220 years could see the collapse of coin producing kingdoms and the golem might actually become cheaper due to "deflation".

My comments weren't about inflation; they were about the time value of money. If you're going to buy a piece of capital equipment today that performs the work of one man until the end of time, it is not worth one day's wages times infinity.

Money today is worth more than money tomorrow, either because you want to spend the money frivolously now, because you want to spend it not-so-frivolously on durable goods now, or because you want to invest it in something that will return even more money in the future -- not just because of inflation. People are willing to borrow money at 19.8% interest, and they're not willing to lend it at 0% interest, because money now is worth more than money later.

If we assume that people discount the future at about 10% per year -- ten gold pieces now are worth eleven gold pieces next year -- then a golem that does the work of one man forever is worth ten men's yearly wages -- not an infinite amount.

If we assume that people discount the future very little, say, 1% per year, then a golem that does the work of one man is worth 100 men's yearly wages.

To tie this in with another thread, short-lived, risk-taking human adventurers would discount future gold dramatically. What's a king's ransom to me, if I may die tomorrow? More wine, women, and song! Long-lived, risk-averse elves, cloistered away in their sylvan sanctuaries, on the other hand, would happily invest in the future. An elf society might very well rely on golems and other expensive, long-lasting capital investments. They can expect to see the benefits.

 

[Ace]

Greetings!

Deploying Golems In The Campaign

Do you like Golems? How do you use them in your campaigns? I think that Golems can be excellent additional muscle and defenders for evil forces, but also, player characters can build and deploy Golems with great effect. The Runic Guardian from MM2 seems to be an excellent choice for both player characters and villains alike. It also seems that animal Golems can be used with good effect as well, like Granite Tigers, Obsidian Baboons, Jade Panthers, or Marble Elephants.

What do you think?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I don't have many Golems in my campaign unitl the high magic era.

Before that period there are a few of the things here and there, mostly made by wizards as guardians

During the high mana era there are a lot of golems including golem armor and vehicles as well

The general reason I don't get much play out of them is that I haven't had a chance to take a campaign past 6th level or so--

Just a lack of campaign momentum and good players

 

[Drakmar]

when my wizard gets high enough level I am going to attempt to make a Huge Stone (or what ever) Golem of a Bullette.

with a small fort on the back.. more of a fortified house.. and a tail tha has rails and is flat.. like a ramp.

my adventuring party is going to travel the FR in style (well.. maybe not in style.. but definately in a thumping big golem)

 

[Steve Jung]

/snip/
It's best to disguise them as something else, otherwise people figure out pretty quickly.

Good golems we've had
1. A Risen from Hollowfaust in the Scarred Lands (the party didn't/couldn't have fight it. they just had to de activiate it. )
2. Ash golems (also from hollowfaust, though they never fought them)
3. The "stone frogs" last game. They were hanging out outside of a temple and when they came hopping up the PCs really didn't get themselves organized. The shadow familiar got sent off to attack them and got pounded. I liked them opening up their mouths and sending out little tougue rays to slow.
/snip/

If you can get your hands on it, check out Dragon #139. There's an article on page 42 that describes 30 ways of making golems more dangerous, including disguise.

 

[mmadsen]

when my wizard gets high enough level I am going to attempt to make a Huge Stone (or what ever) Golem of a Bullette. with a small fort on the back.. more of a fortified house.. and a tail tha has rails and is flat.. like a ramp. my adventuring party is going to travel the FR in style (well.. maybe not in style.. but definately in a thumping big golem)

A stone-golem elephant with a howdah seems perfectly natural for a fantasy army.

 

[Umbran]

While it isn't medeival fantasy (it's more a colonial-era fantasy), for an interesting though on Golems, folks might want to check out the "taloi" of J Gregory Keyes "Age of Unreason" series.

 

[mkletch]

I like golems and use them alot. The one problem is that they are fairly fragile for the cost involved. If I spend 80 to 100 kgp, I want something tough, not something that the average adventuring party can rip apart in four rounds. The cost/benefit ratio (the economic standpoint has already been analyzed; I'm talking combat) is pretty low. I'd rather make a few 20,000gp magic items instead. As a DM, though, I don't worry too much about the cost of the creatures that stock a dungeon...

-Fletch!