Design & Development: Dislikes

[MerricB]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20051216a

More fun from Jesse Decker: three rules he dislikes, and a few house rules.

Dislikes

Polymorph - couldn't agree more. I've seen Ogre Magi polymorphing into Cave Trolls in RPGA adventures (and I did so myself in my Necropolis game)... it's just inherently flawed.

Antimagic Field - I'm very happy I've never come up against one. It is *so* much an effect that brings to mind some stupid cards in Magic: the Gathering. Kill it! Please!

Floaty Shields - Funny, I've just been reading some griping about them. I've never had one in my game. I probably never will now.

House Rules

Andy Collins - Raise Dead - I'm really tempted to employ this. Death is not uncommon in my games. (Yay, 6 PCs on Friday)

Chris Perkins - 20 level spell system - Not much to say without seeing it in full. (I like D&D magic mostly as it is, though).

Shoe - ban stat-boosting items - I'm leaning that way myself. The problems inherent in them affect the quick irrelevance of lower-CR monsters to high-level characters. (See my notes in my musings).

Mike Mearls - less randomness on hp - Interesting. Can you give us the full list, Mike?

Matt Sernett - action dice - Not so interesting. Giving the DM "action dice" is a recipe for disaster. I think I argued this last year on these boards. (I prefer "survival" dice for DMs, that can only be used defensively).

Cheers!

 

[Mark CMG]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20051216a

More fun from Jesse Decker:

Certainly hard to disagree with those dislikes. I think a lot of problematic rules would benefit from not going too far in what they can accomplish in the first place only to require a "reining in" by a series of exceptions. I like the idea of keeping a spell or ability simple and allowing it to be expended in an Improved or Greater version.

Polymorph might benefit from a similar restriction as some weapon feats in that the person learning the spell might be required to choose a particular creature once and whenever they use that spell it's always the same creature. Want a different creature? Learn it as a separate spell.

Antimagic Field might be better reworked as an Antimagic Barrier, blocking effects from an area rather than suppressing them in an area.

Maybe an Animated Shield should require a free hand to direct it. You gain the benefit of having the weight of the shield encumber you and to be able to direct the shield to protect someone else within a certain range/reach (on a round by round basis, perhaps?), but it doesn't allow for two-weapon fighting or two-handed weapons.

Anyway, just some quick thoughts on things . . .

 

[MerricB]

Polymorph might benefit from a similar restriction as some weapon feats in that the person learning the spell might be required to choose a particular creature once and whenever they use that spell it's always the same creature. Want a different creature? Learn it as a separate spell.

In fact, there's an article in Dragon Magazine that takes this approach - you gain the many of the abilities of the specific creature - issue #320, "Forms of Legend" by (surprise, surprise) Jesse Decker!

Aspect of the Earth Hunter - Drd 6 - Bulette
Aspect of the Wolf - Drd 1, Sor/Wiz 1 - Wolf
Body of War - Sor/Wiz 6 - Warforged Titan
Displacer Form - Sor/Wiz 4 - Displacer Beast
Holy Transformation - Clr 7 - Hound Archon
Holy Transformation, Lesser - Clr 4 - Protectar
Infernal Transformation, Clr 7 - Bone Devil
Infernal Transformation, Lesser - Clr 4 - Bearded Devil
Primal Form - Drd 3, Sor/Wiz 3 - Medium Elemental
Wild Runner - Drd 4 - Centaur

Cheers!

 

[Mark CMG]

In fact, there's an article in Dragon Magazine that takes this approach - you gain the many of the abilities of the specific creature -

Well, I don't have that magazine but it doesn't quite sound like the same approach. My suggestion is meant to limit the spell as is. The approach you describe, if as you describe and with the intent you imply, would appear to trade out the one problem for another. I'm not saying this is the case with this particular article, but sometimes the best alternative is just to trim an unwieldy rule without giving in to the temptation of power creep design strategies (even though I understand that helps sell the issues to players hoping for a new edge in their games). Like I said, I don't have the issue and I can only guess that an article presenting such a dynamic is meant to outline a new, more powerful alternative as opposed to fix what is wrong with the core spell as written. You tell me.

 

[Capellan]

Mike Mearls - less randomness on hp - Interesting. Can you give us the full list, Mike?

I'm not Mike, but I've played in his games. This is basically the same approach to hit dice used in Iron Heroes:

d12 becomes d4+8
d10 becomes d4+6
d8 becomes d4+4
d6 becomes d4+2
d4 becomes d2+2

 

[Psion]

In fact, there's an article in Dragon Magazine that takes this approach - you gain the many of the abilities of the specific creature - issue #320, "Forms of Legend" by (surprise, surprise) Jesse Decker!

Aspect of the Earth Hunter - Drd 6 - Bulette
Aspect of the Wolf - Drd 1, Sor/Wiz 1 - Wolf
Body of War - Sor/Wiz 6 - Warforged Titan
Displacer Form - Sor/Wiz 4 - Displacer Beast
Holy Transformation - Clr 7 - Hound Archon
Holy Transformation, Lesser - Clr 4 - Protectar
Infernal Transformation, Clr 7 - Bone Devil
Infernal Transformation, Lesser - Clr 4 - Bearded Devil
Primal Form - Drd 3, Sor/Wiz 3 - Medium Elemental
Wild Runner - Drd 4 - Centaur

Funny thing... I was just reading one of those spells in Spell Compendium which got me thinking about this very topic.

Dear Polymorph,
I just don’t think it’s going to work out between us. You see, it’s not me -- it’s you. Really, it wasn’t all bad between us. There were times when I really enjoyed our relationship -- I remember how much fun it was to flip through the Monster Manual together, laughing at all the possibilities. Figuring out how powerful it was to turn into a troll, an annis hag and a grig was great. But really, your wild ways are too much for me -- I mean the firbolg was bad enough, but then we met the war troll together and it really just seemed like too much. With you, it only takes one monster in a book of 200+ to ruin the experience.

I guess it comes down to the fact that I’ve grown, and you just haven’t.

You see, I like to actually play D&D, not argue about rules, and with you it’s always the same. There’s just not enough time in the day to hear questions like “do my magic gauntlets still apply?,” and “so if I’m an uber-smurf, do I get all smurf powers or only some?,” so I’m moving on. You know, that wasn’t the only way you slowed our games down either. How long did John flip through the Monster Manual during his turn while we all just sat there? I tried to be understanding with you.

Sometimes I regret that rules have to be designed around the most munchkin common denominator (or other forms of maladjusted gamer behavior... frex mean spirited DMing brought us the pokemount. Thanks guys!) And funny how, whenever I hear arguments about munchkin behavior that needs to be corrected for, there's a mention of the RPGA close at hand.

I am not in favor, however, of gutting polymorph. The charm of the spell AFAIAC is the ability to select different forms.

But it is a problem, and if we must address it, let's consider the facets of the problem:

1. Slowing down the game
2. The fact that every new monster book that comes out creates new possibilities to break the game.
3. The thing reading displacer form got me thinking about was the fact that by it's very nature, polymorph has to be limited from supernatural and spell like abilities, because, well, there is not really an in place system for grading their potency in the hand of PCs.

I think that (1) can be addressed without totally limiting the focus of the game to one form by allowing a limited library of forms. Similar to Ranger Wickett's approach in EoM(R) of making you pre-select combat spells, pre-selecting form forces you to do your munchkining outside of game time.

As to the munckining itself, it might help to think of what this spell really is in HERO terms. As it seems to work now, what it does is give you a disguise, potential size change, natural AC, and ability points. Perhaps the easiest way (in terms of writing up, not use) to prevent the munching is to have the spell give you a cap of ability points, perhaps based on levels. Perhaps that cache of points can have abilities like natural AC, flight, and perhaps even supernatural abilities with a given charge.

Perhaps simpler to use in play would be a closed list of forms you could assume that fit the above guidelines, like the summon monster spell, and lets GMs add to the list at their own peril.

 

[Psion]

Mike Mearls - less randomness on hp - Interesting. Can you give us the full list, Mike?

I'd just as soon get rid of randomness altogether in hp (ability scores are another matter). I'd give characters the average for their HD every level, rounded up:

d12 = 7
d10 = 6
d8 = 5
d6 = 4
d4 = 3

 

[WayneLigon]

I like the HP rules. I'm leaning to liking a certain static amount better; right now I'm in a campaign where we always get 75% of the hp for that level, plus con bonus. I'm liking that pretty well right now.

Polymorph is such an intergral part of fantasy itself, that I'd be hard pressed to get rid of it or change it much.

 

[davidschwartznz]

Floaty Shields - Funny, I've just been reading some griping about them. I've never had one in my game. I probably never will now.

It's hard enough explaining why a shield doesn't count towards your touch AC, try explaining why a 'floaty shield' doesn't add to your touch AC.

 

[mearls]

I'm not Mike, but I've played in his games. This is basically the same approach to hit dice used in Iron Heroes:

d12 becomes d4+8
d10 becomes d4+6
d8 becomes d4+4
d6 becomes d4+2
d4 becomes d2+2

Yup, that's exactly right. Similar to what Psion said, I like to keep hit points near an average, with a little bit of a kicker (the 1d4) to push them ahead of the curve. I like PCs in my campaigns to have lots of hps so I can run more interesting, longer fights.

For instance, in my Eberron campaign I ran a fight where the PCs were caught between the Emerald Claw and a bunch of rakshasas while fighting for control of an ancient machine. The party was able to fight the rakshasas, and then near the tail end of that fight, elite Emerald Claw vampire fighters started dimension dooring into the area. With the party's extra hps, I could run one fight into the next without leaving the PCs in an untenable position.