Design & Development: Elite Bulette

[Lonely Tylenol]

QFT. Way to mod smack him...er...honorary mod smack

I'm not sure it's appropriate for people to deputize themselves as "honourary mods" and start telling other posters what to do, regardless of whether a mod would agree with them.

 

[Stalker0]

It'll probably also have either multiple actions or attacks that effect multiple PCs (like area-of-effect blasts), which makes it damage better spread out across the party, rather than smacking the crap out of one PC and leaving the rest of the party untouched.

This is what sounds like to me, and I am all for it. It gives a definite difference between elite monster and higher level monster, and it allows a BBEG monster to be a singular threat to the party without him just annihilating one pc at a time.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

Knockdown attack (vs. ?Fortitude? everyone but the fighter fell)

Could be Strength related, like a trip attempt.

 

[JohnSnow]

I'm not sure it's appropriate for people to deputize themselves as "honourary mods" and start telling other posters what to do, regardless of whether a mod would agree with them.

I was, most assuredly, not attempting to "deputize myself" a mod. I was just pointing out for the edification of the poster in question that it's something I've seen them respond negatively to. Which I saw as similar to someone mentioning that we should steer a discussion away from, for example, real-world religion, before it gets the attention of the mods.

I also corrected a factual error implied by his post, as is my right as a poster. I did that specifically to keep it an on-topic response, and not just a correction.

For what it's worth, I am not a mod (IANAM), nor do I play one on TV.

On-topic, I would have liked to see stats for the Bulette - the way we got Saga preview stats as part of the Alliance & Empire previews. However, I accept that those are still probably somewhat "in the works" and not ready for previewing. I'm just impatient.

 

[Voss]

Could be. But I half expect not to see mechanics that clunky. And with four different defenses, if you can't stack any given attack next to one of them, you've designed the ability badly.

 

[JohnSnow]

Something bothers me a little about not being able to effect them at all when they're underground. That hasn't been true for most D&D editions. It may take some abnormal spells, but there have been options, even if you're using transmute rock to mud, disintegrate or dig. Its another hint that the more esoteric spells are gone in favor of damaging whatnots.

Just cuz this party can't affect them underground doesn't mean it's impossible. Most parties don't usually walk around with transmute rock to mud or disintegrate prepared. It sounds like they decided to use a typical party with an average wizard for the example, not one who knew what he was going to face. From what's said, it's not like the party took off that morning intending to go bulette hunting.

If they had, I'm sure there are ways to tilt the odds in your favor.

 

[Mistwell]

I'm not sure it's appropriate for people to deputize themselves as "honourary mods" and start telling other posters what to do, regardless of whether a mod would agree with them.

Irony. Dripping. Drip. Drip. Drip.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

Just cuz this party can't affect them underground doesn't mean it's impossible.

Agreed. That's a huge leap of reasoning, in my mind. Consider that in a 3.5 game, a Bulette is CR 7. Assuming you want it to be more than a CR=Party Level steamroll of a battle, the party is level 5 or 6, and has only 3rd level spells. Transmute Rock to Mud is 5th level, and Disintegrate is 6th. The 3.5 party doesn't have any reliable means of affecting them underground, either.

And further, what would be the point of letting the Bulette go underground if it didn't provide the creature some kind of benefit? I agree that the game should be more about the Controller keeping them above ground than in killing them while they're below.

 

[pawsplay]

Apparently somebody hasn't played WoW to see where the stole the "elite" designation from!

In WoW, an "elite" monster does about as much damage and has comparable abilities to any other creature of the same level; however, it has maybe 4 times as many hit points, so it takes longer to kill. This is more fun than just fighting a higher-level normal bad guy because the higher-level mob will kill you in a couple hits and it'll resist or deflect most of your attacks, so it's a matter of luck whether you can even connect. Generally speaking, in WoW "elites" are designed to be taken down by groups, whereas non-elites can be taken down solo.

In D&D terms, the difference between, say, a level 14 mob and a level 10 elite mob is that the level 14 will do more damage, have higher defenses/AC, and have a higher attack bonus, whereas the level 10 elite will have a bunch more hit points. The elite is a lot more fun for a level 10 party to fight, because they don't have to pray for a 17 or higher on their attack rolls to successfully do anything to the mob, and in turn their own AC and defenses will actually be helpful.

There is nothing in D&D currently that ties level to AC, and to hit and damage is easily tweaked using Strength.

I am familiar with City of Heroes, and I know that the level of Lieuteants and Bosses is quite arbitrary. Some things hit harder, some have more hit points, etc.

 

[marune]

Something bothers me a little about not being able to effect them at all when they're underground. That hasn't been true for most D&D editions. It may take some abnormal spells, but there have been options, even if you're using transmute rock to mud, disintegrate or dig. Its another hint that the more esoteric spells are gone in favor of damaging whatnots.

Or simply less "simulationist" and more "gamist" spells. Like all 4E seems to be designed. (A good thing IMHO)